< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
|Jun-12-04|| ||Checkmate123: Zugzwang. |
|Jun-13-04|| ||iron maiden: Neat little knight square after 30...Ne5. Would have fit well into "Picturesque Positions." |
|Aug-09-05|| ||ksimm38: Could someone please explain to me why this position is zugzwang? It seems to me that Nc-d5 gives white a fighting chance. Perhaps I'm missing something.|
|Aug-09-05|| ||The beginner: <Ksimm38>
The knight on e4 is hanging, white is losing a piece, After..
38 Nd5 ..Rxc2+
39 Rxc2 ..Rxe4
|Aug-09-05|| ||ksimm38: <The beginner>
Ah. I see. I was looking at the knight taking the bishop after the rook exchanges, but failed to see that the black rook could then take the knight. White would still be down a piece. Thanks.
|Aug-10-05|| ||ughaibu: I dont see why it's a zugzwang either, how does 38.Kh1 worsen white's position?|
|Aug-10-05|| ||olav dalkeith: After 38. Kh1, the g-pawn will fall and the h-pawn soon after.|
|Aug-10-05|| ||ughaibu: I agree that white has no defense but that doesn't make it zugzwang.|
|Aug-10-05|| ||olav dalkeith: I think it is, if following definition is applied:
"Zugzwang occurs when one player is put at a disadvantage because he or she has to make a move — the player would like to pass and make no move, but the fact that the player must make one means being forced into a weaker position." I think the disagreement comes from the fact that it is not an immediate loss of the game, which is otherwise often the case with Zugzwang.
|Aug-10-05|| ||ughaibu: I still dont see what difference Kh1 makes(?)|
|Aug-15-05|| ||olav dalkeith: neither of white's 4 pieces can move here or he will lose one of these. Same with g-pawn. laves the king. If white king could stay were he is, black could take pawn on g4 but take pressure of white's pieces, so better option for black to move N to d3. White rook would then be forced to move to d1 or else he will loose a piece, but then black knight would move to F2 forking rook and king. That's at least what I can see!?|
|Oct-26-05|| ||patzer2: Ivanchuk's 36...Bb4! sets a decisive pin, after which the waiting move 37...Re3! puts Nikolic in a bind due to the overloading of pieces on the pinned Knight on c3 and the attack on the weak pawn on g4. For example, play might continue 38. Kf2 Nxg4+ 39. Kg2 f5 when Black wins easily.|
I don't think this is a Zugzwang position, because the side in Zugzwang is considered OK if a move is not compelled. In this case, even if White could throw out the rules of chess and decline making a 38th move, the threat 38...Nxg4! is decisive for Black.
|Oct-29-05|| ||thathwamasi: <chessgames.com> Could you please clarify if this is a zugzwang or not?|
|Oct-29-05|| ||MaxxLange: If 37. Rd7+, Black plays not 37...Nxd7 38. Kxf3, but rather 37...Ke6!, I take it?|
|Oct-29-05|| ||Dionyseus: This one was easy. First move I considered was 36.Bb4 as I saw that it wins a piece. I spent the next several minutes trying to find a stronger move because I couldn't believe it was that easy, but nope it was indeed Bb4.|
|Oct-29-05|| ||patzer2: Well on second thought, I guess it depends on whose definition of Zugzwang you use.|
IM Jeremy Silman at his site defines <Zugzwang: “Compulsion to move.” A German term referring to a situation in which a player would like to do nothing (pass), since any move will damage his game.> And in this case since White loses if he does nothing (passes), it is not Zugzwang by this definition.
Note that 38...Nxg4 and 39...f5 will follow undermining White's tied down pieces, whether or not he moves them (i.e. not moving doesn't help White here).
However, at NM Dan Heisman's site he defines <Zugzwang: When you have to move, but any move is bad for you.> So, by this definition <Iron Maiden> would be correct in classifying 37...Re3! as a Zugzwang tactic.
I suppose it is more important to understand the tactics in this week's puzzles rather than worrying about their classification. And I suspect that may well be the point <chessgames.com> is making with today's instructive puzzle.
|Oct-29-05|| ||An Englishman: Good Evening: Surprisingly easy for a Saturday; I don't consider this a true zugzwang because Black has two threats, against the a and g pawns. But others may disagree, given that any move of the four White pieces is disastrous. |
The lack of an absolutely precise, universally agreed definition of Zugzwang (there's not even agreement on whether or not to capitalize) has caused a fair amount of disagreement lately. I would submit, however, that most of us will agree that the finishes of this week's games have been surpassingly beautiful.
|Oct-29-05|| ||HelaNubo: I had thought 36...Re3! and only after that 37....Bb4. I see now that Fritz says I am right. To tell the truth, Fritz means (at deep 14) that even 36....Rf4 is better than Bb4, which comes as a third possibility.
Nice finish though, and the idea is always the same, so perhaps I could say I got it;-)|
|Oct-29-05|| ||snowie1: I like Golombek's 'tsooksvunk' definition; any legal move one can make in zugswang will cause a decisive deterioration in his position. Anyway, I gottit this time.|
|Oct-29-05|| ||chessfreako: This is a very interesting game.
Apparantly the best escape for white is (Considering black makes its best move too):
38. Re2 Rcxc3
39. Nxc3 Rxc3
40. Rxc3 Bxc3
Although in this postition its vs , black has the upper hand but I still can't figure out why yet... Can someone please enlighten me on this?
|Oct-29-05|| ||Averageguy: I looked at 36...Re3 27.Rdc1/d2 Nxg4 threatening 28...Rxe4 29.Nxe4 Rxc2 30.Rxc2 Ne3+ going into an endgame up a piece.|
|Oct-29-05|| ||Averageguy: <Although in this postition its vs , black has the upper hand but I still can't figure out why yet... Can someone please enlighten me on this?>
It's not much, but since pawns are even the black has a 1 point material advantage in his B+N vs R.|
|Oct-29-05|| ||johnwgoes: 37. Nd6 37....Bxd6 38. Rxd6, then what?|
|Oct-29-05|| ||HelaNubo: <johnwgoes: 37. Nd6 37....Bxd6 38. Rxd6, then what?> Simply 38...R8(or R3)xc3.|
|Oct-29-05|| ||jahhaj: I also had 36...e3 first, seems to work just as well. But after 37.d4 I mistakenly had 37...f3 threatening Nxd4 and Ne1+ however White just about escapes with 38.d7+ e6 39.f2. Instead simply 37...Nxg4 gives Black a clear advantage.|
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