< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Nov-27-05|| ||Richard Taylor: Another line is
22. ♖xh7 ♗xb3 23. f6 (threatens 24 ♖g7+ ) and White wins or
22. ♖xh7 ♗xg5 23. ♕xg5 exf5 24. e6 and wins
or 23. ... ♔xh7 24. f6 ♖h8 25. ♖g4 ♔g8 26. ♖h4 ♖xh4 27. ♕xh4 ♕d8 28. ♗xa4 ♘b8 29. ♗c5 and forces mate in about 2 or 3 moves
|Nov-27-05|| ||EmperorAtahualpa: Okay, I'm also one of those Rxh7-Qh3+ folks...... I already had a gut feeling that this would be wrong though, because that move would be too obvious for a Sunday puzzle. And of course in the variation containing Rxh7 and Qh3+, you just can't get that f-pawn to f6..|
Respect to those people that did manage to find this puzzle!
|Nov-27-05|| ||Richard Taylor: Although above (!!) after 23...♔xh7 24.♕h3+ and then f6 transposes to the lines above and seems also to win fairly easily.
Well it's 2 a.m. in Kiwiland and the cat is sitting on my desk and beside me - it either wants my chair or to get on to my bed - grrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!|
|Nov-27-05|| ||Richard Taylor: <EmperorAtahualpa: Okay, I'm also one of those Rxh7-Qh3+ folks...... I already had a gut feeling that this would be wrong though, because that move would be too obvious for a Sunday puzzle. And of course in the variation containing Rxh7 and Qh3+, you just can't get that f-pawn to f6..> You can! there is no <of course> 22. Rxh7 wins and is probably better (or as good as) than what was played...my analysis is above your post!!|
|Nov-27-05|| ||Richard Taylor: Rxh7 wins and I would have played it as it (frequently in these attacks you cant calculate every move but you can sense or evaluate that one side is wininng -see "Judgement and Planning in Chess" by Euwe) brings the King into an attack and then with f6 a mate is threatened on g7or h8 soon and Black is trying to break though as he does his Q cant get back to defend the mate -it is just as good as fxe6 -it means that White sacrifices a R and a Knight for time so that he can get his pieces into postion to demolish Black - exf6 is the more "obvious" move.|
|Nov-27-05|| ||Richard Taylor: The line played is excellent - quite beautiful -but if I had worked on that line I think I would (or may have) found that - it often depends which course of action you concentrate on... there are some pretty ideas in that line Velmirovic played and indeed it is elegant...|
|Nov-27-05|| ||bishopmate: didn't once look at fxe6, never imagined that a move like that would lead to mate!!... but then again, that's y im not world class|
|Nov-27-05|| ||Koster: <Soltari> According to old analysis by Kasparov & Nikitin 14...Nxe5 is good- 15. Qh5 Ng6 16. Rh1 Bb7 17. Rg3 Rfc8 18. Rh3 Nf8 19. Rdh4 Bg2! 20. Rg3 Qc6 .
14...dxe5 also isn't bad.|
|Nov-27-05|| ||kevin86: My try was 22 ♖xh7 ♔xh7 23 ♕h3+ but i don't think it goes very far--but maybe it does!?|
|Nov-27-05|| ||apoorv: i didn't look through all the variations but even OTB, i would've played Rxh7, since it seems to win (looks a lot less complex than what actually happened in the game|
|Nov-27-05|| ||babakova: 22.Rxh7? does NOT win. 22...Kxh7!(no need for other variations when this is clearly strongest) 23.Qh3+ Kg8 24.f6 Bxb3 25.Rg4 (as earlier recommended) Rc8! white has no time to put his rook on h4 and mate on h8 since his own king is under heavy pressure. A silly variation is 26.Rh4 Rxc2+ 27.Kd1 Rc3 discovered check and the white queen falls.|
|Nov-27-05|| ||dakgootje: <kevin86> well just look a lil back, because <Richard Taylor> analysted those moves quite good...especcialy his first few posts at this game, untill the point where I interrupt ;-)|
|Nov-27-05|| ||dakgootje: yeah, I dont like computers too much but i cant deny that their analyses are at least almost always correct|
|Nov-27-05|| ||Guest1825: I got the fxe6 move, but not the Qh3 move. I was consumed by possibilities of controlling the open file, which sludged up my mating attack. So I decided to go with the first move, and partial victory. Because I knew it was winning, but not sure how it converted to mate! |
How much time should be spent solving these things? I'm spending about 1 to 3 minutes tops.
<Chessgames>, could you add a "timer" to these puzzles? i.e. puzzle to be solved in 2 min.?
|Nov-27-05|| ||LIFE Master AJ: I took a short nap, then woke up and tackled this puzzle. I must have been half asleep, I didn't come close to solving it. (I chose f6 and Qh3, it gives White a strong attack, but is not 1/10 as convincing as the continuation in the actual game.) |
It is also a game of nearly unparalleled brilliance by Velimmirovic. (I have annotated several of his game on my "Angel-Fire" web site, I like this game so much, I may have to add it to my collection.)
|Nov-27-05|| ||Dick Brain: I would certainly never have gotten this one if I hadn't already played the game over on several occasions. 22. Rxh7 is tempting with the following qh3+, f6, and the rook lift on the fourth rank, but the Black attack is too fast.|
|Nov-27-05|| ||RookFile: I can't help but be reminded of Fischer's game with Geller. Fischer
had a win, but made a slight inaccuracy, and it was Geller who
emerged with the win. This position
is very similar, one wrong move, and it will be black who wins rather than white.
I didn't come close to solving this.
Fischer vs Geller, 1967
|Nov-27-05|| ||Richard Taylor: <babakova: 22.Rxh7? does NOT win. 22...Kxh7!(no need for other variations when this is clearly strongest) 23.Qh3+ Kg8 24.f6 Bxb3 25.Rg4 (as earlier recommended) Rc8! white has no time to put his rook on h4 and mate on h8 since his own king is under heavy pressure. A silly variation is 26.Rh4 Rxc2+ 27.Kd1 Rc3 discovered check and the white queen falls> I'm not sure of his although I did miss Rc8 which looks like a killer - but after 22. Rxh7 Kxh7 23. Qh3+ Kg8 24. f6 Bxb3 25. axb3|
Now if 25. ...Qa1+ 26. Kd2
Buy 25 .... Rc8 looks strong.
But 26. Rg4 Qa2 27. Rh4 Rxc2+ 28. Kxc2 Rc8+ 29. Bc3 and wins
However this variatin shows how alert one must be in this type of position! I would have played some kind of move like Rxh7 or fxe6 even without knowing the precise method of winning and even if I lost after Rxh7 -so what?? - it would be cowardly not to play it if I thought it was winning.
Let's get subjective here!!
|Nov-27-05|| ||khense: I got the f5 X e6, the Qh3 and the rxh7 with what looks like a winning attack. I think I won most positioins that good, but probably lost some.|
|Nov-28-05|| ||Richard Taylor: I forgot again that of course after 25 ...Qa1+ 26. Kd2 Qxb1 wins. Lol.|
|Nov-28-05|| ||Richard Taylor: However!! 22. Rxh7 Kxh7 23. Qh3+ Kg8 24. f6 Bxb3 25. Qxb3 is not so clear -
this is all academic of course... also after 22. Rxh7 kx Q checks etc then fxe6 maybe possibe -in the light of Shredders Rc8 Velmirovic's "first" move 22. fxe6 is best -in fact it is fairly logical and quite a beautiful sequence -but it's intersting to try out other attacks to see how far one can get in attack and defence in this type of position.|
|Nov-28-05|| ||Averageguy: Lol, my namesake got completely owned!
He must have studied my games ;-)
|Dec-02-05|| ||LIFE Master AJ: After getting an e-mail about this game, I took a few minutes and looked at the following line:
22.Rxh7?!, Really an inferior move. (Maybe - '?') 22...Kxh7; 23.f6? Bxb3; 24.cxb3 Rc8+; 25.Kb1 Bf8; 26.h4 Qc7; 27.Qe2 Bc5; " " |
Fritz 8.0 ... after about 10 minutes ... has Black winning by some 7-10 points. (The 'evals' keep fluctuating.)
|Dec-02-05|| ||patzer2: White's 22. fxe6! and 23. Qh3! prepare the demolition of pawn structure combination 24. Rxh7!! to decisively exploit the weak Black King position.|
|Dec-03-05|| ||LIFE Master AJ: <patzer2> I could not agree ... more.|
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