< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Jun-20-08|| ||Viewer Deluxe: I noticed the move 24.Bc4 but I was thinking of f6, g7 and h-file attacks.
Trying to understand the line I followed it with my engine.
It seems that instead of 30.Ne7 white has 30.Nxf6+ which is almost three times stronger.
For example: 30. Nxf6+ Kf8 31. Be5 Ke7 32. Ng8+ Ke8 33. Bxg7|
|Jun-20-08|| ||Viewer Deluxe: <latebishop> I was working on the exact same line. It fails to 25...Rd4 26. Rd3 Rxd3 27. cxd3 Bxf6 28. Qxf6 Qxc3+ etc.|
|Jun-20-08|| ||mmmsplay10: If 24... Bxc4, is 25.Qxf6 winning?|
|Jun-20-08|| ||Manic: <mmmsplay10> Yep, that seems right.|
As for me, I really couldn't be stuffed calculating variations (felt very tired). Don't think I would've seen what to do after Bc4 anyway.
|Jun-20-08|| ||Marco65: To be precise, 24...Bxc4 25.Qxf6 doesn't mate, but gains another piece after 25...Kf8 26.Qxg7+ Ke7 27.bxc4|
|Jun-20-08|| ||kevin86: The move that black has to throttle the white moves of 24 ♕h4,♕xf6,or similar strokes is 24...♖xd4. White's crucial move is 24 ♗c4! which blocks black's main defense|
Alas,I chose 24 ♕h4
|Jun-20-08|| ||Marmot PFL: This was not too hard for a Friday. White has a big threat in Qxf6 Bxf6 Bxf6 and Rh8 mate, But this wont work unless Bd4 is safe. So Bc4 is the natural move, forcing Rxc4 (Bxc4 Qxf6 wins) bc4 Qxc4 and white consolidates with Rd3 and still attacks f6 and d6.|
|Jun-20-08|| ||YouRang: Not too hard. This is a classic case of seeing a one simple combination that <almost> works, and then finding a way to make it work (or threaten to make it work).|
Of course, the combination that <almost> works is: 24.Qxf6! (threat:Qxg7#) Bxf6 25.Bxf6 with Rh8# unstoppable.
The only trick in this puzzle is to recognize the "almost" part. One clue is that this would otherwise be WAY too easy for a Friday. :-)
It's only "almost" because black's Q+R battery on the c-file gives sufficient counterattack with check at c3.
The simplest way to counter that counterattack is the interference 24.Bc4!, blocking the queen's access to c3. This forces 24...Rxc4, which stops our mating threat by attacking the supporting bishop. Of course, 25.bxc4 wins the exchange.
I didn't carry it out much further, but I think this was the jist of the puzzle.
|Jun-20-08|| ||YouRang: Hmmm, I see that even though I found the right move, I didn't appreciate it as much as I should have. :-||
With 24.Bc4, white creates a two-way interference (blocking the queen from c3, but also blocking the rook from taking Bd4).
It kinda makes the move extra pretty. :-)
|Jun-20-08|| ||ThomYorke: <An Englishman> Pretty easy? Yes, finding only the first move. But there´s a lot more than that to consider the puzzle solved.|
|Jun-20-08|| ||YouRang: <ThomYorke: <An Englishman> Pretty easy? Yes, finding only the first move. But there´s a lot more than that to consider the puzzle solved.>|
Indeed there are some puzzles where the first move is easy to spot, but the continuation requires some work. But today's puzzle wasn't one of those. 24.Bc4 doesn't jump out at you unless you see the continuation ahead of time.
I thought <An Englishman>'s explanation demonstrated that he had the correct motive for the move. I suppose he could have elaborated more, but it would just be a matter of stating the obvious, IMO.
|Jun-20-08|| ||JG27Pyth: This is the line I came up with and I can't see what's wrong with it!:|
24.Bc4 Rxc4 25.Bxf6 (Bxf6? 26.Qxf6 mate to follow.)
25...Rxc3? 26.Qh4 (threatening Qh8+! Bxh8 Rh8#)
How does black defend 25.Bxf6?
|Jun-20-08|| ||JG27Pyth: Ahhh... got it... Rook moves off the file! And now Queen will take Knight with check and white comes up a tempo short. |
:( darn, thought I had something.
|Jun-20-08|| ||dabbler: I can't see why 24. Bxf6 will not work. That was my response. Can someone explain both to me and DarthStapler?|
|Jun-20-08|| ||dabbler: I got the answer to my question. White loses with 24. Bxf6.|
|Jun-20-08|| ||whiteshark: My solution was <24.Bb5 Rxb5 25.Nxb5 Qxb5 26.Rh2> with the idea of <27.Rdh1 ~ 28.Rh8+ Bxh8 29.Rxh8+ Kxh8 30.Qh6+ Kg8 31.Bxf6 ~ 32.Qg7#>|
|Jun-20-08|| ||johnlspouge: Friday (Difficult): White to play and win.
Material: N for 2Ps. White has Rh1 on an open file leading to the Black Kg8. The Rh1 intensifies the pressure on the K-side dark squares from Bd4 and Qf4, as would Nc3, if it were at d5 or e4. Once Bd4 moves, Rd1 has a discovered attack on Pd6, supported by Qf4. Only the White Bf1 is inactive. Black threatens 24…Rxd4 25.Rxd4 Qxc3+, then 26…Qb2#. Black requires 2 moves to reinforce the obvious weak point, Pf6.
Candidates (24.): Bxf6, Bb5, Bc4
The immediate capture 24.Bxf6 fails:
24.Bxf6 Bxf6 25.Qxf6 Qxc3+
and the capture 25…Qxc3+ with check leaves Black ahead a P. White blunt the counterattack along the c-file with an interference, however.
24.Bc4 (threatening 25.Bxf6 26.Qh4 27.Qh8+ 28.Rxh8# or 25…Bxf6 26.Qxf6 27.Rh8#)
Because the inactive White Bc4 has bought 2 tempi, Black has no time to counterattack, so any defense must respond to 25.Bxf6 directly.
(1) 24…f5 25.Bxg7 (threatening 26.Qh6)
25…Kxg7 26.Rxd6 (threatening 27.Rxc6 and 27.Qe5+)
26…Qc5 27.Nd5 (threatening 28.Qe5+)
Black cannot defend against the threat.
(2) 24…g5 25.Qxf6 (threatening 26.Qxg7# and 25…Bxf6 26.Bxf6 then 27.Rh8#)
25…Kf8 [else, mate] 26.Qxg7+
and the Black position falls apart with loss of the a1-h8 diagonal.
(3) 24…Kf8 25.Bxf6
26.Bxg7+ Kxg7 [else loss of the a1-h8 diagonal and the game] 27.Rh7+ then 28.Qf6 and mate soon)
25…Bxf6 26.Qxf6 then 27.Rh8#
|Jun-20-08|| ||johnlspouge: Velimirovic chose a defense I did not anticipate, not a surprise.|
|Jun-20-08|| ||whiteshark: <dabbler> and <johnlspouge> I thought that <24.Bxf6> will be answered with the ♕sacrifice <24...Qxc3+ 25.Bxc3 Rxc3> |
click for larger view
and now there are a bunch of terrible discovered checks.
|Jun-20-08|| ||johnlspouge: Hi, <whiteshark>. |
(I just cannot get used to "talking" to your avatar Y:>O Who is he?)
Your discovered checks are indeed fearsome, and psychologically very powerful. Toga II 1.3.1 gives my (and <dabbler>'s) line a little higher evaluation.
[ply 15/60 time 02:51 value (to White) -0.70]
24.Bxf6 <Qxc3+> 25.Bxc3 Rxc3 26.Qxd6 Rc6+ 27.Ka2 Rxc2+ 28.Kb1 Rb2+ 29.Kc1 R4xb3 30.Qxa3 Rxa3 31.Rd8+ Bf8 32.Kxb2 Rxf3 33.Ra8 Bd7 34.Rxa5 Bc6 35.Bc4 Bg7+ 36.Ka2 Rf2+ 37.Ka3 Bxe4 38.Rh3
[ply 15/50 time 00:25 value (to White) -1.41]
24.<Bxf6> Bxf6 25.Qxf6 Qxc3+ 26.Qxc3 Rxc3 27.Bd3 a4 28.bxa4 Rxa4 29.Rb1 Kg7 30.Rb6 Rd4 31.Rb7 Rc5 32.Rg1 Rh5 33.f4 Kf6 34.f5 gxf5 35.Be2
|Jun-20-08|| ||johnlspouge: <An Englishman>, <dzechiel>, and <Once> give the real understanding of the position. To add (very little), 24.Bc4 intensifies threats (here, on the K-side) while developing an inactive piece, a characteristic I have found common to many key moves in the daily puzzles.|
|Jun-20-08|| ||Kasputin: A wild looking position. White has one more minor piece than black but black has a couple of extra pawns.|
White has pressure along the a1 to h8 diagonal and along the h file. But the white K is also along that same diagonal and white has to be careful about the black queen capturing the c3 knight. For example, 24. Bxf6 Bxf6; 25. Qxf6 QxNc3+
There are a couple of problems with capturing first with the Q - e.g., 24. Qxf6. For one, there is that same black queen check problem on c3 (e.g., 24 ... Bxf6; 25. Bxf6 Qxc3+). But black also has the chance to play Rxd4 after 24. Qxf6. A move like 24. Ka2 looks like it takes care of the queen check on c3 problem (maybe, anyway) but not the problem of the black rook taking the white bishop on d4.
Ideally, I would like to list several candidate moves, analyze them a few moves deep and pick the best looking one and two and analyze them out to a finish. And there are lots of possiblities, like using the h file rook, moving the queen over to the h file, moving the f1 bishop to attack the black queen or to c4 in order to impede the black rook and queen battery on that file. And who knows, there may be several ways to win - some long and complicated, some short and complicated :-)
But I am lazy today. After missing a fairly obvious defensive move in yesterday's puzzle, maybe I should analyze this one a lot. On second thought - no!
I am going to take a shot in the dark here and say that I would move 24. Bc4. This removes (or at least impedes) that dangerous check from black's queen. Also black can't immediately take the d4 bishop. It also opens up the possibility that the d1 rook could shift over to h1 if that h1 rook advances up the h file (to h8 for example).
Black can play 24 ... Rxc4, but then I might go for it with 25. Bxf6 (well okay, I would look at capturing the rook first as well). If 25. Bxf6 then I know that black doesn't have to recapture on f6 (doing so looks to me like it loses), so if black played, for instance, 25 ... Rxc3, then I would play 26. Bxg7 and hope for the best (see, I said I was lazy).
I should be more diligent and work things out more exactly and then analyze a second or third candidate move if 24. Bc4 fails. But on the other hand even if Bc4 is the correct initial move, then I will not consider that I really solved it either. It is time to look...
|Jun-20-08|| ||Kasputin: Okay, I didn't get it even though I got the first move and even though I saw some of what lies at the heart of this position. If this were really me at the board in a real game, and I managed to play 24. Bc4, I wonder if I would have followed up with the correct 25. bxc4 (assuming the rook capture happened)? I certainly thought about it here but figured that there must be more (this is after all a puzzle to me and therefore an artificial situation to some degree). For that reason I thought I would play 25. Bxf6 and hope for the best.|
What is funny is that if play went 24. Rc4 Rxc4; 25. Bxf6 then 25 ... Rxc3 is actually a mistake. After trying to work this out by writing out my thoughts in WordPad and posting those observations, I decided to set the position up in Fritz and look at it. This is something I usually don't do btw - even if I am wrong on a puzzle, I usually still try human-only analysis to see where I went wrong. But as I said, I'm being lazy today. Turns out that according to Fritz 8 25 ... Rd4 is the only answer after 25 Bxf6 that gives black the advantage. After 25 ... Rxc3?? either 26. Qh4 or 26. Rh8+ leads to forced mates. My move 26. Bxg7 is clearly a mistake because it misses the mates, but it isn't really that bad in terms of the overall evaluation of the position. After 26 ... Kxg7 and 27. Rxd6 things are about even according to Fritz 8 - black has the advantage but not by much.
|Jun-21-08|| ||whiteshark: <<johnlspouge: I just cannot get used to "talking" to your avatar Y:>O Who is he?> |
It's only me seeing the solution of a Monday puzzle. :D
But to be honest I've no idea.
|Jun-22-08|| ||patzer2: For the Friday June 20, 2008 puzzle solution, the obstruction move 24. Bc4! sets up the threat of 24...Bxc4? 25. Qxf6
Bxf6 26. Bxf6 with a decisive mate threat.
So the reply 24...Rxc4 25. bxc4 winning the exchange is practically forced.
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·