< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Jun-16-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: My main line of thought was an attack on f6, which initially has too many defenders, but I did not consider the move played in the game as the first thing to do.|
Llike <chessmoron>, I opted for 20.Bc4, expecting something like 20. ... Bd5 21. Bxd5 Qxd5 and now once the queen is deflected, white wins a pawn by 22. Nxg7 Kxg7 23. Bxf6+ Kf8 24. Qh4 and continues the attack, but this did not really seem that impressive or interesting, so I gave up at this point.
Reviewing the initial portion of the game, I was surprised by the black knight moves 13 ... Nb8 followed by 14 ... Nc6 - they seemed like a waste of time.
So I put the whole thing into the engine, which insisted that at the puzzle position, 20.Rac1 would be the best move. At +3.30, it evaluates about 1 point better than Bc4 (+2.28) or Nxg7 (+2.10). But I am having a difficult time seeing the strategy behind that rook move ...
According to Hiarcs (all analysis 16-ply), white indeed starts gaining advantage after move 13, and black commits bigger mistakes with 18 ... Bb4, forcing white queen to f2, where it wanted to be anyway. If 18 ... Qd7, then white would not have much advantage. From now on, black is losing.
At move 21, black could've played 21...Qxd4+, effectively forcing 22. Qxd4 Bc5 23. Qxc5 bxc5:
click for larger view
and now he'd be not much worse than after 18 ... Bb4. One pawn down, ugly position, he'd still probably lose but slowly.
21 ... h5 allows the white to take the black apart, the next moves are more or less forced until black makes the crucial mistake 23 ... Rg6??, allowing the mate shown by <Assassinater>. This would be a good position for a puzzle earlier in the week (white to move, 24.?).
There's not much to say about the rest of the game - both sides followed the forced mate line.
I don't particularly like this game, or the puzzle. Maybe with a really deep analysis there is some more depth behind the move 20.Nxg7, but I am not going to bother. I'm going to sleep now.
|Jun-16-07|| ||Open Defence: I got Nxg7 Kxg7 Qh4 but didnt get Black's response h5 ...|
|Jun-16-07|| ||VargPOD: Got also 20.Nxg7 Kxg7 21.Qh4 but then had 21...Be7, after which 22.Qh6+ is devastating: |
22...Kg8 23.Bxf6 Bxf6 24.Bxh7+ Kh8 25.Bg6+ Kg8 26.Qh7+ Kf8 27.Qxf7#
or even shorter 22...Kg8 23.Bxf6 Rxf6 24.Qxh7+ Kf8 25.Qh8#
Well, that was my try.
|Jun-16-07|| ||goodevans: <alshatranji: I found the first two moves, but I didn't calculate all Black's responses, including h5.> and <Open Defence: I got Nxg7 Kxg7 Qh4 but didnt get Black's response h5>. Ditto for me.|
I'm not sure how far you'd have to see to claim to have solved it, but it's further than I managed to calculate. I'm just fairly pleased that the first couple of moves came to me fairly instinctively.
|Jun-16-07|| ||avidfan: <<dzechiel> <<<Perhaps it's 20 Nxg7 Kxg7 21 Qh4 (putting together two of my initial candidate moves and continuing to protect the d-pawn). The threat is 22 Bxf6 Rxf6 23 Qxh7+ Kf8 24 Qh8+ Kh7>|
Kh7 seems wrong, I think you meant 24...Ke7.
I usually enjoy reading your analysis and musings on the daily puzzle.
|Jun-16-07|| ||Gilmoy: Even material. White has a hidden triple at f6, strongly suggesting 20.Nxg7. The Nf5/Q-sees-g pattern means the canonical Spanish B-sac Bh6 (gxh6 Qg3+ etc.) is available, but it's not forcing because Black's Rook already vacated f8 -- hence Black can reply with g6 at no cost, and/or his K can just run to d7.|
Black has one intersection at e1, and a half-threat of Qd5 (except that his Q is momentarily tied down in defense of the Nf6). Subtle: Black has no (useful) captures. Black does have the irritating desperado fork Ne4, doubling on the Bg5 and offering a Q trade, with counterplay against the weak d-pawn. If White's N moves, Black also has the pin-trade Qxd4 (Qxd4 Bc5 etc.) as a way to return a piece to relieve pressure.
First thought: Hammer the f6/g7 complex. The N is defended 3 times, and (can be) attacked 3 times. [A] 20.Nxg7 Kxg7 brings a replacement defender -- no joy yet, but it does expose the KB to h7. [A1] Double-sac 21.Bh6+ (cuts the f8 escape route) Kxh6 22.Qh4+ Kg7 25.Qg5+ Kf8 escaping. White's double on h7 doesn't pan out because the Nf6 protects it -- and the Qd8 behind it is also protected, so the Qh4 pin achieves nothing.
Second thought: We see that White's B/Q pair apparently aren't enough to overwhelm h7. Reconsider Black's N being "defended 3 times". Isn't Black's Re6 out of squares? [B] 20.Bc4 unhinges the N -- Black either loses the R, e.g. [B1] Be7 21.Bxe6 fxe6 22.Nxe7+ , or retreats it, or [B2] 20..Bd5 21.Bxd5 Qxd5 (disconnects the Q) 22.Nxg7 (Black has 2 en prise; White threatens Nh5).
[B3] Kxg7 23.Bxf6+ Kf8 24.Qg3 threating Q(g7+)-(g8+)-(xf7+).
[B4] Qxg5 23.Nxe6 fxe6 24.Qxf6 .
Third idea: Instead of winning the N, maybe White can just attack around it, and steer for corner mate patterns. [C] 20.Nxg7 Kxg7 21.Qh4 (still protects d4, sidesteps the N desperado -- now Black has no move that saves the N and defends h6) Be7 22.Qh6+ (to cut f8, setting up the Be3) Kg8 (Kh8 23.Bxf6+ mates at g7/h7) 23.Bxf6 is a mate fork:
[C1] Rxf6 (leaves e7 blocked) 24.Qxh7+ Kf8 25.Qh8#.
[C2] Bxf6 (f7 is unprotected) 24.Bxh7+ Kh8 25.Bg6+ (doubles on f7) Kg8 26.Qh7+ Kf8 27.Qxf7#.
But Black could use the pin-trade: [C3] 21..Qxd4+ 22.Qxd4 Bc5 23.Qxc5 bxc5 24.Bxf6+ Rxf6 25.Rxf6 Kxf6 26.Bxh7 and a tedious endgame for White -- not convincing.
How about a combination of [B] and [C]? [D] 20.Nxg7 Kxg7 21.Bf5 (neither of Black's desperados work while he's losing an exchange) Rd6 (interference with his own Q -- other R moves allow 22.Bxh7) 22.Qh4 (Black has gridlock) Qe7/Be8 (else [C2]) 23.Qh6+ Kg8 24.Bxh7+ Kh8 25.Rxf6 .
|Jun-16-07|| ||Gilmoy: I wrote: <now Black has no move that saves the N and defends h6> I missed 21..h5 -- I felt that Black couldn't afford to weaken his K-side like that.|
I was more concerned about avoiding Black's pin-trade desperado. Black must have missed the Rook deflection.
|Jun-16-07|| ||karnak64: Wow. We have Karpov variations and Kasparov attacks? I have grown old.|
I correctly guessed the first move, and I mean guessed -- I saw something was up with the defense of f6. Couldn't see it all the way through, though -- typical Saturday for me.
|Jun-16-07|| ||Marmot PFL: I am not sure this was more difficult than yesterday's as I got the first three moves fairly quickly. Then getting to positions that were outside my range of calculation, but with that many around the king and various pins & forks something should turn up. For black Bb4 was a mystery move with king under attack and the B does nothing on that sq. Bf8 has to be a better defence.|
|Jun-16-07|| ||realbrob: So, how come these two guys played a Karpov Caro-Kann, Modern Variation Kasparov Attack in 1938?|
|Jun-16-07|| ||lilfoohk: Not really hard to see sacrifice needed .|
|Jun-16-07|| ||patzer2: After the demolition sacrifice 20. Nxg7!!, White solves today's puzzle with a series of deflections and decoys to put
Black's King in a mating web.
In the final position, <assasinator>, above, gives a good assessment of the mating possibilities.
|Jun-16-07|| ||Gilmoy: <realbrob>: That's what this line is called today. Most likely, the line was known back then (by a different name), and more recently the Ks re-analyzed it with modern theory/computers, found new resources, and sparked a revival.|
|Jun-16-07|| ||BobbyJim: <Chessmoron> <What about 20 Bc4?> My guess would be maybe 20...Bd5. That seems to stymie the skewer on the e6 rook and f7 pawn.|
|Jun-16-07|| ||janvB: Moeilijk!|
|Jun-16-07|| ||TopaLove: Well, itīs "very difficult"...but not for me.|
|Jun-16-07|| ||Marmot PFL: 4...Nd7 goes back at least to 1913 and is usually attributed to Nimzovich. The attack with Ng3, Ne5, f4-f5 etc. was played by Panov as early as the 1930s (if not before). Both of these players have other openings named after them, especially Nimzovich.|
|Jun-16-07|| ||piever: Uhm, I saw the same line played in the game until move 25. I didn't see anything after 25. Qxg6 (only 26. Qxc6, but then material is even), and tried to enter the rook gaining a tempo, with 25. Rf1+ Rf6 26. Bg6+ but I still can't understand if that line is winning for White...|
|Jun-16-07|| ||fm avari viraf: I don't know how old is this technique of grabbing the g-pawn or h-pawn in similar positions. After 20.Nxg7 Kxg7 Black's fortress is in shambles. Now, instead of the text, if 21...Be7 then 22.Qh6+ Kg8 23.Bxf6 Bxf6 [ if 23...Rxf6 24.Qxh7+ Kf8 & 25.Qh8# ] 24.Bxh7+ Kh8 25.Bg6+ Kg8 26.Qh7+ Kf8 & 27.Qxf7#. So the only try would be 21...Qxd4+ 22.Qxd4 Bc5 giving back the piece & the win for White is still far away.|
|Jun-16-07|| ||bogo78: very nice puzzle! another neat way to finish in <assasinater>'s third line (the one i have actually seen, of course not as I was trying to solve the puzzle which i missed from the second move, blundering with Qg3??) is: 29. Bh7+ Kxh7 30. Rf7+ K g6 or h6 or g8 31. Qg7#. of course its overkill but its funny to have only 2 pieces left and mate with them. I also liked <Viraf's > 21 Qxd4+ which would lead to white being 2 pawns up in the long run.|
|Jun-17-07|| ||Ultra: I tried 20.Nxg7 Kxg7 21.Qh4. Then I was stymied by the black reply ...Qxd4+ 22 QxQ ...Bc5|
|Jun-17-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <Gilmoy: I missed 21..h5 -- I felt that Black couldn't afford to weaken his K-side like that>|
Your feeling was correct, and missing the 21...h5 move is a GOOD thing.
The 21 ... Qxd4+ which you saw (very impressive!) is MUCH better than the move played in the game, and <fm avari viraf> also mentioned it. And chess engines also agree.
The black's play after move 20 was very bad. IMO, this has a negative impact on the puzzle quality.
<BobbyJim: <Chessmoron> <What about 20 Bc4?> My guess would be maybe 20...Bd5. That seems to stymie the skewer on the e6 rook and f7 pawn.>
Incorrect. See the line in my first post. It was confirmed valid with computer analysis that I run overnight. Chesmoron's first move is therefore perfectly good, in fact, slightly better than the alleged solution in the game (which is partly defused with <Gilmoy>'s 21 ... Qxd4+.
|Jun-18-07|| ||kevin86: I guess white's goal was to "harass the horsey" at f6-lol|
|Jan-17-14|| ||Conrad93: Nothing about the game itself? This is an impressive game, and I highly doubt most of you would have found this in an actual game.|
Don't toot your own horn.
|Jun-02-16|| ||posoo: How on EARTH can there be a KASPAROV KARPOV varotion of a defense of a game dat was LAST PLAYED in 1938!?!?|
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