< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 15 OF 15 ·
|Sep-28-04|| ||iron maiden: I think Leko's just biding his time now, trying to keep the pressure on Kramnik. We're probably in for a few more quick draws before we see what he really has. |
|Sep-28-04|| ||acirce: A few more early draws!? Leko has to win twice against the perhaps most solid player in the world, no, I don't think he wants that. I'm sure he didn't want this to happen either. |
|Sep-28-04|| ||HolyKnight: Leko needs to take lessons from Korchnoi. Kramnik reminds me of Karpov allot. That is where I loved Korchnoi he was the master of transition in openings. I play 1.c4 to avoid your pet Grunfeld Karpov. Stuff like that. |
|Sep-28-04|| ||Minor Piece Activity: Nice collection in the making, ruylopez. =) |
|Sep-28-04|| ||Calchexas: meh. Another (relatively) quick draw. C'mon Leko...you can do it...|
What happens after 24. d6, by the way? That looks pretty interesting to me.
|Sep-28-04|| ||offramp: Essentially we only saw 7 moves today; moves 1 to 16 we had all seen before. Not very enthralling. |
|Sep-28-04|| ||suenteus po 147: <ruylopez900> Your growing game collection looks awesome. It'll be something to lokk back at in ten years, and you can say you were there watching it all has it happened. Very cool stuff.|
Why doesn't Leko try something really unorthodox, like the Center Game? Or the Vienna?
|Sep-28-04|| ||chocaholic: If Kramnik plays the Petroff again in game 5, Leko should play the cochrane gambit! |
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nf6
3. Nxe5 d6
4. Nxf7 !!!!!!!
Probably unsound, but would certainly throw Kramnik off of his opening preparation!
|Sep-28-04|| ||InspiredByMorphy: I must make a correction to my last post. The first game between Morphy and Lowenthal is not real. It is this game with a different name. Von Der Lasa vs Jaenisch, 1842 . He always played 3.Nxe5 . |
|Sep-28-04|| ||Drstrangelove: <chocaholic> Kramnik has played against it before and done alright. Topalov vs Kramnik, 1999 |
|Sep-29-04|| ||refutor: <petroff...3.d4...take some fischer games as example>|
in this database, the petroff that fischer played against top tier guys was 3.Nxe5
Fischer vs Bisguier, 1959 Fischer vs Gheorghiu, 1970 Fischer vs Petrosian, 1971
|Sep-29-04|| ||acirce: <offramp> But you're forgetting that thrilling 50-minute think by Leko. Who said there is no action in chess? |
|Sep-29-04|| ||Joshka: <acirce> Thanks for the info on the 3 draws in that 48 game match, really thought there were more!:-)...also I believe you made a comment about other "long" thinks....check out Kasparov-Karpov Game 6 from London 1986. Kaspy thought 69 minutes on 20.Rd7?!...I believe Bd5 was the right move. |
|Sep-29-04|| ||offramp: Dr Nunn reckons that you should never think for more than ~20 mins on a move; after that you are wasting your time.|
How often have you read this:
"White thought for 50 minutes over his reply, but the move is in fact a mistake..."
|Sep-29-04|| ||acirce: Even short games have their interest while they last.. Some of the comments on http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail... might be found instructive.|
<Joshka> Thank you, that should be Kasparov vs Karpov, 1986 - know anything else about this game? I'll have a look at it, and that position, later..
|Sep-29-04|| ||ruylopez900: <HolyKnight<I feel you need to create some imbalance in the position.> >The only imbalance you are creating is bunkering down as White and playing passively though! This is fine as Black, but when you're white and have the first move, such openings aren't that good! The give black equality, they don't make him earn it!|
<suenteus po> Thanks.
|Sep-29-04|| ||patzer2: <chocaholic> After entering the Cochrane with 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6
3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nxf7!? Kxf7 5. d4, Black has the interesting 5...c5!? which has become the most popular line for the second player. Although there have been few serious tests of the line, Black won both games played at the GM level in A Vitolinsh vs Khalifman, 1984 and Short vs Shirov, 2002. |
The Shirov win was a rapid, and, as <clocked> notes there, White missing a winning chance at move 30 following a Black blunder. I'm hoping other strong GMs will be willing to take the risk and give the line further tests.
Perhaps the Cochrane might be a good risk for Leko in this match, especially with him needing to take risks for winning chances. An interesting online analysis of the Cochrane gambit may be found at http://www.schach.gmxhome.de/boofre... .
|Sep-30-04|| ||Joshka: <patzer2> Thanks for this Cochrane link..it's great! everything's here...yea...Leko should look into this...although Kramnik DOES I'm sure know many of the in's and out's...one can't know EVERY line...maybe Leko can get one that he might not be up too par on.... |
|Sep-30-04|| ||Joshka: <offramp> Interesting comment by Dr. Nunn...does he give the reasons why, one is wasting time?.... |
|Sep-30-04|| ||Joshka: <acirce>...well Karpov made his reply...according to Keene, instantly!...I have the Keene book on that match. |
|Sep-30-04|| ||offramp: I think he meant that if you have three good candidate moves you should try and analyse them to about five moves deep - beyond that and your analysis may well become inaccurate.
And at about an minute a move with some checking that's about 20 mins. |
|Sep-30-04|| ||acirce: <Karpov made his reply...according to Keene, instantly!> No wonder, he had 69 minutes to think :-) Does Keene offer analysis as for why Bd5 was correct? |
|Jul-19-05|| ||acirce: Going back to this theoretically very important game. Kotronias and Tzermiadianos recently published a repertoire book for White against the Petrov, "Beating the Petroff", that I have picked up and it seems good. In the New In Chess Yearbook 74, Tzermiadianos has a survey about an interesting Kotronias suggestion to counter Kramnik's important novelty 17..Qc2, namely 18.c5!? which was not included in the book because the match was going on during the exact time of writing. It is presented as the only try White has for an advantage. I quote below the analysis in the text section, summing the essential points up, while the game section contains much more exhaustive lines.|
Someone is bound to take this up, I guess. Both Leko, Kramnik and other top players must have been looking at this line already and come to their own conclusions. I note that White players have consistently stayed away from the earlier main line 16.c4 since this game.
|Jul-19-05|| ||acirce: <Variation C
The idea behind this move is that White opens the diagonal for Be2, so he can think of ideas with Bb5. Also, the d5-d6 push is threatened and in some variations it is important that the a3-pawn is not hanging.
Black has a lot of possibilities at his disposal and I shall try to show the main lines.
For further analysis, see Kramnik-Leko, Brissago 2004 in the Game Section.
C1) After 18..Rcd8, White has two interesting continuations at his disposal, but only 19.Bb5! is good for an advantage. Black should reply but 19..Bf6! 20.Qc2 Bc2 21.Bc6 bc6 22.Bf4 Be4! 23.Bc7 Rc8, and although White has an advantage, Black can try to hold the position.
C2) Black can also exchange queens: 18..Qd1 19.Rad1, and now:
C21) 19..Bf6 20.d5 Na5! 21.Nd4 Bd7, and White is only slightly better;
C22) 19..Rcd8 20.d5!, and White has a dangerous initiative: 20..Nb8 (20..Na5 21.Bf4! Bc5 22.Bc7 ) 21.Nd4! Bd7 (21..Rd5 22.Bc4 Rc5 23.Nf5! Rf5 24.Bg5! Rg5 25.Re7 Rf8 26.Rf7 ; 21..Be4 22.Nb5 ) 22.Nb5 Bb5 23.Bb5 c6 24.Ba4, with a clear advantage for White.
C3) After 18..Bf6 White should play 19.Bb5! Rcd8 20.Qc2 Bc2 21.Bc6 bc6 22.Bf4 Be4 23.Bc7, with a clear advantage.
C4) 18..Red8 19.d5! Qe4 20.Qb3! Rd5 21.Qb7! Bd7 (21..Rdd8 22.Bb5 Na5? 23.Qe4 Be4 24.Bd2 Bf3 25.Ba5 ) 22.Rad1
C5) The best try is 18..Na5!, and now:
C51) 19.Ne5?! Qd1;
C52) 19.Rc1 Qd1 20.Bd1!? is an interesting try, but Black seems to hold his own in a lot of ways (20..Be4!?; 20..Bg4; 20..b5!?; 20..Be6) See also the Game Section for further analysis;
C53) 19.Qc2!? is the best try for an advantage. After 19..Bc2 20.Rac1 we are at the most important crossroads of the variation.
C531) 20..Bf5 21.d5 Rcd8 (21..Be4 22.Bb5 c6 23.d6! ; 21..Bf6 22.c6! b6 23.Ba6 Rcd8 24.d6 Rd6 25.Bb6 ) 22.Bb5! c6 23.Ba4 Rd5 24.Bd2 Rd2 25.Nd2 is slightly better for White;
C532) 20..Bb3 21.Bf4 Bf6 (21..Bd5 22.Nd2 21..Nc6 22.Bd3 Bd5 23.Bf5 ) 22.Bd3 Nc6 (22..Bd5 23.Bf5 is slightly better for White) and now 23.Bf5 Be6 24.Be4 Nd4 25.Nd4 Bd4 26.Bb7 Rb8 27.c6 Bb6 28.Rcd1 or 23.Re8 Re8 24.Rb1 Bd5 25.Rb7 g5! 26.Be3 g4 27.Nd2 Bd4 28.Bd4 Nd4 29.Rc7 Re1 30.Nf1, both with a slight edge for White.
C533) 20..Be4!, controlling the important square d5, is the best try, e.g. 21.Nd2 Bc6 (21..Bd5 22.Bg4 Rcd8 23.Bf4 ) 22.Bf4! Kf8! 23.Rb1!, and now 23..b6! reduces White's advantage to a minimum.
Black must play very accurately to keep White's advantage to a minimum after the powerful 18.c5!.
Although for the moment it seems that Black can survive, I am sure that this variation will be pressed hard in the near future.>
|Oct-24-05|| ||Dionyseus: According to the official commentator, after Kramnik's 17...Qc2, Leko thought for nearly an hour and played 18.d5|
The commentator added "he didn't find anything, he didn't come up with anything, we were really really dissapointed."
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