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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing > |
Oct-27-07
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| Harvestman: In his book, Larsen says Geller was in serious time trouble from move 27 onwards, and that Geller's flag fell as he started to resign. He also regards the combination as 'obvious' (to him maybe, not to me, although I'd seen the game before anyway). By the way, Larsen calls this opening a 'Benoni Reversed', as the position reached after move 6. apparently resembles the Schmid Benoni with colours reversed. |
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Oct-27-07
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| Marmot PFL: <Harvestman> Time trouble sounds right, cause 28...Ba3 is tactically losing. But at that point there was no good move it seems and Geller didn't like passive defence. |
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Oct-27-07
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| Harvestman: <Marmot PFL> Yeah, Larsen calls 28...Ba3 "A desperate try" (I'm quoting because the game is well beyond my standard of play), although he doesn't give any alternatives for Black. He said there was no good defence after 28.Nd7. Presumably Geller was hoping for 29.Rc3 or 29.Rc1, both of which give Black some chances to save the game according to Larsen. |
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| Oct-27-07 |
| Madman99X: I take 1/2 credit.
I got 29. Bxg7 Bxc1 30. Nf6+ Kxg7, but was unable to calculate all the way to mate. |
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| Oct-27-07 |
| Madman99X: To some of your masters out there:
Why does black not play 4 ... e5 ? It takes space in the middle, forces white to relocate his knight to the edge of the board, and cuts off the diagonal for the fianchetto'd bishop. |
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Oct-27-07
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| RandomVisitor: <Madman99X>I am no master... The position after 4.0-0 has occurred 20 times in master level play, and 16 of those times black has responded 4...Nf6. The most recent game in this position (2001) black played 4...e4. The computer likes 4...e4 5.Ne1 and then 5...f5 with a small advantage to black. |
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Oct-27-07
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| Marmot PFL: 4...e4 is an Alekhine's with colors reversed, which Larsen liked- Larsen vs J H Donner, 1959 |
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Oct-27-07
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| Marmot PFL: here is a main line of Alekhine's defence w reversed colors. White's extra tempo makes a big difference (which isn't always true) Larsen vs T Van Scheltinga, 1960 |
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Oct-27-07
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| greensfield: White rook is en prix.
My candidate moves are;-
(a) Move the rook.
Where to move the rook to? c8 or c3? Then what?
(b) Take advantage of the knight on d7 to fork the king & queen, but in order to do this, the bishop must first remove the pawn guarding f6. <29. Bxg7 Bxc1 30. Nf6+ Kxf7 31. Nxe8+ Kf8 32. Qh8> so far so good, now
(b1)<32…Bg8 then 33. Nf6> winning the bishop (not sure what after this) or (b2) <32…Ke7 then 33. d6+ Kd7 34. Nf6+> now Blacks in trouble, Black has then (b2.1) <34…Ke6 35. Bd5+> forking the queen (b2.2) <34…Kxd6 35. Qxd8+ or Qf8+> (b2.3) <34…Kc8 35. Bh3+> |
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| Oct-27-07 |
| mkrk17: I could see till 36. Qxd8 of this line, among all the other lines that i saw. I hope that is enough to claim credit. |
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Oct-27-07
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| kevin86: I solved most of this one! The brilliant king hunt after Bxg7 was great to see-imagine the joy of doing it over the board. Ok-until something better comes along-this game could be called "Larsen's perfect game"-lol After all,it is world series time! |
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| Oct-27-07 |
| xrt999: < greensfield:
so far so good, now
(b1)<32…Bg8 then 33. Nf6> winning the bishop (not sure what after this)>I had blacks best move 32...Bg8, instead of the losing 32...Ke7. My point is that white has no concrete forced attack after 32...Bg8, and black does have Qd1+, forcing Bf1 removing white's bishop from play. On the other hand, 32...Ke7 is a disaster for black, as you can see. Here is the alternative:
29. Bxg7 Bxc1
30. Nf6+ Kxg7
31. Nxe8+ Kf8
32. Qh8+ Bg8
33. Nf6 Qd1+
34. Bf1 b4
black now has a brutal passed pawn on the b-file and things dont look so bad for black. White is still winning,yes, but maybe black can play for a draw with this pawn. |
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Oct-27-07
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| parisattack: This has always been one of my favorite hypermodern games; Reti-Rubinstein 1923 is my ATF. Larsen played these openings as well as anyone - including Reti and Suttles. He had a decent score against Geller if memory serves. The combination is beautiful and certainly worth study. Seeing the d6 check is the key, IMHO. |
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| Oct-27-07 |
| Alphastar: <xrt999>: A quick checking with my crafty:
34. Bf1 b4
35. Qxg8+ Ke7
36. Nh7! seems to win neatly for white.
For example, white is threatening 37. Qf8+ Kd7 38. Nf6+ Kc8 39. Qc5+ with mating threats.
and after 36. ..Qxd5 37. Qf8+ Ke6 (Kd7 Nf6+) 38. Qe8+! black is forced to play Kd6 when Nd8 drops, because 38. ..Kf5 leads to a forced mate: 39. Bh3+ Kg6 40. Qg8+ Kh5 41. Nf6#/Qg4#.So it isn't that unclear at all. |
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| Oct-27-07 |
| Zxookazoid7: Wow.... ChessGames puzzles get easier and easier. I figured that mate out within 5 minutes of looking at it |
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Oct-27-07
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| patzer2: For today's puzzle solution, Larsen's demolition of pawn structure combination with 29. Bxg7! appears to win. However, it would seem that Black can improve with 32...Bg8! with counter chances and an unclear position (as noted by <Whiteshark> and <xrt999>. Instead, the correct follow-up continuation appears to be 29. Bxg7 Bxc1 30. Nf6+ Kxg7 31. Nxe8+ Kf8 32. Qh8+ Bg8 33. Nf6 Qd1+ 34. Bf1 b4 35. Qxg8+ Ke7 36. Nh7!  (as noted by <xrt999> and <Alphastar>). |
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Oct-27-07
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| Crowaholic: I got this far: 29. Bxg7 Bxc1 30. Nf6+ Kxg7 31. Nxe8+ Kf8 32. Qh8+ Ke7 33. d6+ Kd7. At least that was one of the lines I looked at (sigh!). The rest was too deep for me. 36. ..Qd1+ 37. Kg2! Bd3!? 38. Bc8+!: nice finish! |
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Oct-27-07
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| al wazir: I checked my pet line OTB, and it's better than I thought. I just didn't follow it far enough: 29. Rc3 Bb2 30. Rxb3 Bxa1 31. Bxa1 Re1+ 32. Bf1 Rxa1 33. Re3 Bf5 34. Re8+ Kh7 35. Nf8+ Kg8, and now 36. Kg2. If 36...Bh3+, then 37. Kxh3 Rxf1 Rxd8 wins the  ; so black has to play 36...Nb7, and white scoops up black's passer with 37. Ne6+ Kh7 38. Nd4 Nd6 39. Rd8. The position at this point is 
click for larger viewnd white should win. |
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Oct-27-07
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| Jimfromprovidence: <whiteshark> asked <What is white's best continuation after 29 Bxg7 Bxc1 30 Nf6+ Kxg7 31 Nxe8+ Kf8 32 Qh8+> <32...Bg8! 33.Nf6 Qb4> ? The answer to whiteshark's (and other similar inquiries )is 34 Nxg8 Bb2 35 Qxh6+ Kxg8 36 Qg5+ Bg7 37 Qxd8+ Bf8. White is up two pawns as seen below.. 
click for larger viewBlack’s best line after 33 Nf6 is 33… Qb1!. White then must play very carefully at his point. The correct continuation is 34 Be4 Qb4 35 Bd3 Qe1+ 36 Kg2. If after 33...Qb1 white instead plays 34 Qxg8+ then 34... Ke7 35 Qe8+ Kxf6 36 Qxd8+ Kg7 leaves white only a pawn ahead, as seen below. 
click for larger view |
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Oct-27-07
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| RandomVisitor: After 29 Bxg7 Bxc1 30 Nf6+ Kxg7 31 Nxe8+ Kf8 32 Qh8+ Bg8 33.Nf6: top 10 Black moves -
click for larger view
(20-ply) Rybka2.3.2a
4.21 33. ... Qb4 34.Bf1 Ke7 35.Nxg8+ Kd6 36.Nxh6 Kc7 37.Qe5+ Kb7 38.Nf5 Ba3 39.d6 Nc6 40.Qd5 Kb6 41.d7 Nd8 42.Nd4 Qe7 43.Qxb5+ Kc7 44.Qd5 Qc5 4.85 33. ... Be3 34.Be4 Qd1+ 35.Kg2 Qd2 36.d6 Qxd6 37.Qxg8+ Ke7 38.Nd5+ Kd7 39.Nxe3 Qe5 40.Qh7 b4 41.Bd5 Qd6 42.Bxf7 Kc8 43.Bc4 Kb8 44.Nd5 Nc6 4.92 33. ... Qc2 34.h4 Qd2 35.Nh7+ Ke7 36.Qe5+ Ne6 37.dxe6 Qd1+ 38.Kh2 fxe6 39.Qg7+ Kd6 40.Qxg8 Kc5 41.Qxe6 Kb4 42.f4 Ka3 43.Qa6+ Qa4 44.Qxh6 b4 45.Qd6 Qc2 4.92 33. ... Qd3 34.h4 Qd2 35.Nh7+ Ke7 36.Qe5+ Ne6 37.dxe6 Qd1+ 38.Kh2 fxe6 39.Qg7+ Kd6 40.Qxg8 Kc5 41.Qxe6 Kb4 42.f4 Ka3 43.Qa6+ Qa4 44.Qxh6 b4 45.Qd6 5.05 33. ... h5 34.Nh7+ Ke7 35.Qf6+ Kd7 36.Bh3+ Kc7 37.Qe7+ Kb6 38.Qxd8+ Kc5 39.Nf6 Bb2 40.Qe7+ Kb6 41.Qd6+ Ka5 42.Nxg8 Qf3 43.Ne7 Ba3 44.Qc7+ Ka4 45.Nc8 Bb2 5.07 33. ... Ba3 34.Qxh6+ Ke7 35.Nxg8+ Ke8 36.Bf1 Nb7 37.Qb6 Kf8 38.Nf6 Ke7 39.Nh7 Qxd5 40.Qe3+ Kd8 41.Qxa3 Nd6 42.Qa5+ Kc8 43.Nf6 Qc5 44.Bh3+ Kb7 45.Bg2+ Kc8 46.Bd5 5.19 33. ... Qa4 34.Nh7+ Ke7 35.Qf6+ Kd7 36.Bh3+ Ne6 37.dxe6+ fxe6 38.Qg7+ Kd6 39.Qxg8 Bb2 40.Qxe6+ Kc7 41.Qxh6 Qd1+ 42.Bf1 b4 43.Ng5 5.34 33. ... Qd1+ 34.Bf1 b4 35.Nh7+ Ke7 36.Qe5+ Ne6 37.Qf6+ Ke8 38.dxe6 Bg5 39.Qg7 Ke7 40.Qxg8 Kxe6 41.Qc8+ Ke7 42.Qf8+ Ke6 43.Qxb4 Be7 44.Qe4+ Kd7 45.Qf5+ Kc7 46.Qxf7 Qd6 47.Nf8 Qf6 5.23 33. ... Bg5 34.Nxg8 Qd1+ 35.Bf1 Ke8 36.h4 Bc1 37.Qe5+ Kf8 38.Nf6 Ba3 39.Qe8+ Kg7 40.Qxd8 Bc5 41.Ne8+ Kg8 42.Qc8 Qc2 43.Nd6+ Kh7 44.Bd3+ Qxd3 45.Qxc5 b4 46.Nxf7 b3 47.Ne5 5.37 33. ... Bf4 34.gxf4 Qb1+ 35.Bf1 Qg6+ 36.Kh1 Nb7 37.f5 Qxf5 38.Qxh6+ Ke7 39.Nxg8+ Kd8 40.Qb6+ Ke8 41.Bxb5+ Kf8 42.Nf6 Ke7 43.Ba6 Nd6 44.Ng8+ Kf8 45.Qxd6+ Kxg8 46.Kg2 Kh7 47.Bb5 Qg4+ 48.Qg3 Qe4+ |
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Oct-27-07
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| whiteshark: Many thanks for analysing <32...Bg8<<>>> to <RandomVisitor>, <Jimfromprovidence>, <xrt999> , <Rlphastar> and <patzer2> !! |
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| Oct-27-07 |
| PAWNTOEFOUR: oh,i thought it was monday!......my bad! |
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| Aug-17-08 |
| Abdooss: It was a clear sunny day, fit for a battle. The Black Army saw that its enemy was behind the hill. The Black Army quickly moved into the battlefield and seized the strategic points. Suddenly, there were black clouds hovering. Thunder & lightnings caused the formations to be scattered. The King was cut off from its bodyguards.. and suddenly... AMBUSH ! - Hypermodern at Work |
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| Mar-05-09 |
| xrt999: < Alphastar: <xrt999>: A quick checking with my crafty: 34. Bf1 b4
35. Qxg8+ Ke7
36. Nh7! seems to win neatly for white.
For example, white is threatening 37. Qf8+ Kd7 38. Nf6+ Kc8 39. Qc5+ with
So it isn't that unclear at all.>
In my post I said Geller is still losing after 32.Bg8; I am not under any pretense other than Geller <maybe> would have increased his chance <slightly> of figuring out some sort of escape, rather than just walking into the check by d6, which just loses quickly. Im sure Larsen would have figured it out as well. (not unlike you, but without needing Crafty, which didnt exist in 1960). Why cant people just admit a move is less clear, rather than just run to program du jour all the time to refute? If you are going to play, you need to seize whatever little nuance you can, albeit slight. The nuance is this: Qd1+ by black removes white's bishop from checking on h3; mathematically, there is one less piece involved in the attack and therefore statistically, 32.Bg8 is better than 32.Ke7 |
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| Oct-24-09 |
| superstu: if 4..e4 ne1 f5 d3, then f5 would be weak.
if youre on icc larry christiansen did a video on this game called "A battle between two chess legends".
LarryC says bg8 was better than ke7 |
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Later Kibitzing > |
sac: 29.Bxg7