|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Oct-28-09
 | | Patriot: Easy draw--37...Rxf5.
<Eisenheim> Good points about material value. After 37...Rxf5 38.exf5 Nf6, the knight is equal to the rook since the position is closed and will remain so. <Once> Nice observation about the difference between the pawn being on a2 vs. a3. If the pawn were on a2, then 37...Rxf5?? would be a big mistake since the rook penetrates the queenside via a3. |
 |
| Oct-28-09 | | YetAnotherAmateur: In this sort of position, white's knight is more valuable than black's rook (as demonstrated by what happened when black tried to hang onto his rook). In that situation, it's perfectly logical to trade the rook for the knight. What I had to spend a while looking into is whether it would be possible to neutralize white's kingside pawns and push the e pawn. |
|
Oct-28-09
 | | awfulhangover: Ouch, a miss!
I thought
37 .. Rf6
38 h5 Rxf5
39 exf5 Nf6
40 Kg2 Nxh5 etc |
|
Oct-28-09
 | | David2009: Wednesday's problem Larsen vs E Torre, 1987 Black 37..? 37...Rf6 38 h5 Rxf5 39 exf5 Nf6 draws since White cannot break open a file for his R and
a pawn down cannot usefully sacrifice the exchange with his K shut out. Black leaves his
a7 and b7 pawns strictly alone and waits for White to try either b6 or a6: Black then pushes the other Pawn. Playing for a win with 37 Rf6 h5 38...Rf8!? intending ...Nf6 ...Nxh5 and Rf4 is an adventure too far because after Nxd6 by White the b7 pawn also falls. The "winning try" b6?? preparing this adventure would be a blunder <CHESSTTCAMPS 27 October 2009: ... "blunder" a result-changing mistake> because a4-a5 opens the a file and White then has too much mobility <Edward Lasker, "Modern Chess Strategy" 1951>. Sometimes prudence is the better part of valour... Time to
check.
====
On a quick look, I seem to be in a minority preferring 38...Rf6 to the immediate 38...Rxf5. Can White really afford to sacifice the g6 Pawn? AHA! White doesn't need to! 37... Rf6 38 Ne7! Rf4 39 Nc8 Rxh4 40 Nxa7 Rg4+ 41 Kf2 Rxg6 with a dynamic and unbalanced position: e.g. 42 Nc8 (fixing the rival N) Rf6+ 43 Kg3 Rf7 and the Black R threatens to re-enter the fray via c7. There may be better moves for both sides. Perhaps Black can still draw with this line, perhaps not: but 38... Rxf5 is more clear-cut. Time to digest other comments. |
|
| Oct-28-09 | | doubledrooks: 37...Rxf5 fits in with what seems to be the week's theme, finding a draw. After 38. exf5 Nf6 black can for all practical purposes blockade the position, as sacking the white rook for the e5 pawn gets white nowhere. |
|
Oct-28-09
 | | Marmot PFL: Rxf5 and Nf6 leads to a blocked position. All easy problems this week, though this one and Monday's I may have seen before. |
|
Oct-28-09
| | Wolfgang01: The question is: How should black continue? Obviously should black sacrifice the exchange on f5! After that the position is cramped and with highly chance the game would be drawn. Since black didn't choose that continuation, he lost! |
|
Oct-28-09
 | | RandomVisitor: After 37.g6
1: Bent Larsen - Eugenio Torre, Brussels 1987
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 3 :
<[+1.05] d=29 37...Rf6> 38.h5 Rxf5 39.exf5 Nf6 40.Kf2 Nxh5 41.Rh1 Nf6 42.Kf3 Kg8 43.a4 Kf8 44.a5 Ke7 45.Rh4 Kd7 46.Rh3 Ke7 00:31:08 100710kN |
|
Oct-28-09
| | DarthStapler: I considered the first move but I couldn't find anything after it |
|
Oct-28-09
 | | beenthere240: <Randomvisitor> That analysis from Rybka 3 seems to confirm that Rxf5 is the best move but that it can be delayed (for no especial reason) by playing Rf6 first. I guess forcing 38 h5 and allowing black to win the h pawn makes the position even more drawish, if that is possible. |
|
Oct-28-09
| | Patriot: <David2009> 37...Rf6 is an interesting move, given Rybka analysis by <RandomVisitor>. It seems risky, though I would much rather choose that route if I were playing someone much lower rated. But it does seem to be playing with fire in some ways, because black never gets an advantage. In the game, that's what black did and he got burned. |
|
Oct-28-09
 | | al wazir: <euripides>: I tend to agree with you. I found the line you describe and went through it several times. Half the time white won and the rest were draws. It's a very long continuation with plenty of scope for mistakes on both sides. No question that black should have played 37...Rxf5, but 39...h5 sealed his doom. |
|
Oct-28-09
 | | YouRang: Aided by the knowledge that this was a puzzle, and that the puzzles so far this week have been move-to-draw, I spotted <37...Rxf5> pretty quickly, since it yields a position that looks impenetrable to white's rook. Sure enough, it ended up being the weak spot that white exploited to win. I figured that 37...Rxf5 was the solution, although it isn't obvious that it's *necessary* for obtaining the draw. For instance, I don't see the point of <39...h5>. It just makes the h-pawn undefensible, and an obvious target since it can be attacked by both the knight and the rook. But given that black has little chance of winning, 37...Rxf5 was probably the best move anyway. |
|
Oct-28-09
 | | kevin86: Funny,but I saw the drawing move immediately. After 37... xf5,the position is totally blocked. |
|
Oct-28-09
| | kevin86: Ironically,white later sacs an exchange on his own to garner the win. |
|
| Oct-28-09 | | turbo231: We are told "black to move" but black loses,does not even draw. Should one be told to move the color that loses to move first? What are we suppose to do help black lose!? |
|
Oct-28-09
 | | Jimfromprovidence: The analysis by <Random Visitor> shows that if 37... Rf6, then 38...Rxf5 is the best way to draw. But is it the only way to draw after 37...Rf6?
click for larger view In this position above, derived from 37...Rf6, white can penetrate and likely win with Ne7+, followed by Nc8. It's diffficult to say, though, if getting to such a position can be achieved by force. |
|
Oct-28-09
| | YouRang: <turbo231: We are told "black to move" but black loses,does not even draw. Should one be told to move the color that loses to move first? What are we suppose to do help black lose!?> Sometimes puzzles involve moves that *should* have been played, but weren't, and that is the case today. Black wouldn't have lost had he found the better move, which is shown in the annotation for move 37: <37...Rxf5! => |
|
Oct-28-09
 | | Pawn and Two: Establishing a fortress by 37...Rxf5, and thereby securing the draw, seems clearly the best course for Black. If Black tries 37...Nf6, as noted by <David2009>, an unclear position, with some chances for White, could result after 38.Ne7 Rf4 39.Nc8. It is better for Black to take the draw with 37...Rxf5. If after 37...Nf6, White tries 38.h5, Black again should go for the draw with 38...Rxf5 39.exf5 Nf6 40.Kg2 Nxh5. If after 37...Nf6 38.h5, Black plays 38...Rf8?, he will have a lost position: 
click for larger viewHere is Fritz's analysis of the position after 38...Rf8?: White can now win with 39.Rf1!: (2.73) (30 ply) 39...Rf6 40.b6 a6 41.Ne7 Rxf1+ 42.Kxf1 Nf6 43.Ke2 Nxh5 44.Nc8 Nf4+ 45.Kf3 Nxg6 46.Nxd6 (3.37) (27 ply) 46...Nf8 47.Nf7+ Kg8 48.Nxe5 (4.70) (27 ply) 48...a5 49.a4 h5 50.d6 Ne6 51.Nc6 Nf8 52.Nxa5, and White is clearly winning. |
|
| Oct-28-09 | | AnalyzeThis: <RandomVisitor: 38.h5 Rxf5 39.exf5 Nf6 40.Kf2 Nxh5 41.Rh1 Nf6 42.Kf3 Kg8 43.a4 Kf8 44.a5 Ke7 45.Rh4 Kd7 46.Rh3 Ke7 00:31:08 100710kN > I guess the question is whather black is obligated to play 40...Nxh5. If he doesn't, isn't this just the same blockade as the main line? |
|
| Oct-28-09 | | muralman: Aha!! I first looked to my knight to attack, but it became obvious the white knight would have the drop on me in a counter attack. The only other piece worth considering was my rook. The only aggressive move was to fall on it's sword. Any other move was simply defensive, and that obviously led to a long tangle, the kind of puzzle I don't care for. So, looking at the sacrifice, I knew that would leave me with a knight going against a rook. An overview of the board gave me the notion I could lock out the other rook for a draw. I looked how I would handle the pawns to bring it to a draw, and settled for that. To my surprise, a note read the same, making me correct!! Ta da!!!!! I think. :) |
|
Oct-28-09
 | | chrisowen: I thought it was Rxf5 as its the only obvious hack. Why sack when you can shuffle though? The rook lifts only stalls the inevitable, black should have freestyled it kicking the minor piece off the board. Instead he tricks himself as Ng4 is not good enough to keep it up. |
|
| Oct-28-09 | | BOSTER: 37...Rxf5
38.exf5 Nf6 1/2-1/2
After move 38.Nf6 you need to realize that White can not break into black camp.
White can not do anything to break through. |
|
| Oct-28-09 | | A Karpov Fan: got it |
|
| Oct-28-09 | | MaczynskiPratten: I got this quicker than I would otherwise have done by remembering some of the comments on yesterday's puzzle about "when is a game drawn" showing blocked positions. Thanks kibitzers! |
|
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
sac: 46.Rxg4