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Bernard / Carlier vs François André Philidor
Miscellaneous Game (1780), ?
Chess variants (000)  ·  1-0


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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-19-06  Philid0r: seriously, could someone actully explain why the pawn is missing? Make fun all u want, i'm sure there was a time someone had to explain it to you...
Sep-19-06  technical draw: It's pawn and move odds. Not a mistake cause the check 4.Qh5 would not have been possible.
Nov-15-06  Milo: <Philid0r> Carlier and Bernard were weaker players than Philidor, so to make the game even, Philidor played without his f pawn.
Dec-22-06  strobane: This is the oldest game I have found on cg. Are there older ones?
Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: Yes, this is the oldest on record (here) Castellvi vs Vinyoles, 1475
Mar-04-07  MaltaCross: Shouldn't White have played 6. Qxh8, instead of 6. Bf4 ?
Mar-04-07  aazqua: Chess certainly was gay in those days.
Mar-04-07  geraldo8187: <malta> white can't play that because the queen is pinned to the king.
Apr-08-07  2021: <stobane> There actually 101 chessgames (in that were played before 1780.

Oct-12-07  wolfmaster: <MaltaCross> The queen is pinned, so it can't move horizontally or diagonally until it is unpinned.
Dec-26-07  cyanfish: <sfm> 1... e5 isn't so good because 2. Qh5+ picks up a second pawn and a big attack after 2... Ke7 (2... g6 3. Qxe5+ Qe7 4. Qxh8 ) 3. Qxe5+ Kf7 4. Bc4+ .
Jan-29-08  wolfmaster: If you're going to play a pawn down, you would choose the f-pawn because it is the least pushed usually of all the pawns.
Jan-30-08  HNP: Carlier & Bernard prove they are too strong to be given odds of a pawn. Or maybe Philidor ought to have played them separately!

Still, it's always fascinating to watch Philidor marshal his pawns. The French Revolution was less than a decade away. Ironically, Philidor found himself in England when it happened, and proscribed by the revolutionaries, his aristocratic background counting for more with them than his championship of the "third estate" on the chessboard.

Mar-06-08  MaltaCross: <geraldo8187> <wolfmaster> Thanks for pointing out the pin !
Premium Chessgames Member
  GrahamClayton: This is the earliest surviving Philidor game. Unfortunately no games survive where he does not give odds to his opponents.
Dec-31-08  WhiteRook48: a Philidor miniature... no, he loses!!
Jan-01-09  WhiteRook48: it's the winner's only game in the database. In some bad cases it's the loser's only game in the database. I wonder what would happen if it was Philidor's only game in the database... LOL
Jan-03-09  WhiteRook48: the rench deense
Jan-05-09  WhiteRook48: obviously the extra pawn proved too much for Philidor, so one pawn makes all the difference.
Jan-10-09  WhiteRook48: "Pawns are the soul of chess"
Jan-19-09  WhiteRook48: why 18. Na3?
Sep-18-10  zb2cr: To <WhiteRook48>:

A little late to answer, but, 18. Na3 defends the White Pawn at c2, which was under attack from the Black Rook at e2.

Jan-07-14  Rory O Rion: Does anyone know under what circumstances this game was played?

Following White's 21.Kg2, had Philidor played h2(instead of Rd8), White would not have been able to position pawn at g4; this strategic undersight/oversight allowed White's pawn(g4), to guard the Black Knight's liberation square f5: preventing the Black Knight from freeing itself. And in contrast, it was only on 27.Nc2, White finally found it's own liberation(on c2), which led to the eventual assist with Rook, to capture the lone advancing black pawn and game: that's what I'm seeing here . . .

Sep-07-14  waustad: It seems odd that in an odds game he chose to trade down into a lost endgame. In odds games I thought the idea was to go for the throat trying to use greater ability in wild tactical situations. You are starting out lost so what do you have to lose? I know when giving a time spot in blitz I hate it when the opponent just plays solid stuff. I've adjusted the spot from 10min - 2min to 10min - 4min or even 5min for succeding games at times in that case. 40 years ago I even played some at 5min - 1min, but I'm not that fast anymore. With no chess clocks available at the time, Philidor didn't have that choice for a spot.
Apr-11-16  juanhernandez: strange game !!!
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