< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Aug-22-17|| ||GrahamClayton: Black's attack comes out of nowhere, with the rook on the g-file and the queen on the 4th rank combining to infiltrate the open White kingside, while all four White pieces are unable to defend in any way.|
|Sep-03-17|| ||ChessHigherCat: The two major themes are preventing an inopportune Q trade with Qxb4 and attacking with Nf4+. Unfortunately, the N is the only piece preventing Qxb4.|
So I think the first couple moves are probably 23...Nf4+ 24. Kg1 Nd3 (protecting b4 and threatening f2 and the rook on d1).
Now it's tricky because it would be nice to keep the pin on f2 so instead of Qb7+, Rg4+ is probably the right move.
27...Rg4+ 28. Kh2 Qd6+ 29. f4 Rxf4 30. Rxf4 Qxf4+ 31. Kg2 Qxd2+ looks winning
To summarize: Nf4+ 24. Kg1 Nd3 25. Re2 Rxh4 26. gxh4 Rxh4 27. Rd2 Rg4+ 28. Kh2 Qd6+ 29. f4 Rxf4 30. Rxf4 Qxf4+ 31. Kg2 Qxd2+
Lez checky doubt ladies and gentlemaanz...
|Sep-03-17|| ||ChessHigherCat: Having looked at the game line, it seems more forcing but mine might be winning, too (too tired to figure it out now). Just as Stalin said that there's no sweeter feeling than going to bed knowing that your enemy will be liquidated by the next morning, so there's no worse feeling than knowing that your solution will be demolished by the time you wake up, but dat is way cookie crumbles.|
|Sep-03-17|| ||diagonalley: hardly 'insane' but (as is often the case) beautiful Q/N co-ordination|
|Sep-03-17|| ||Altairvega: I though both the N and the R sacrifice. 23.. Nf4 opens the diagonal a8-h1 for Queen checks and reserving the rooks invasion next. 23..Rf4 aims at opening the g-file. Eventually I chose 23..Nf4. I see I was wrong and missed the games continuation. ROOKS RULED THAT WEEK!!|
|Sep-03-17|| ||al wazir: What happens after 26. f3 ?
If 26...Nf4+, then 27. Kh2 Rg2+ 28. Kh1 Qh8 29. Qxb4+ Kd7 (29...Kd8 30. Qb8+; 29...Kf6 30. Qc3+) 30. Qb7+ Kd6 31. Qc7+ Kd5 32. Qc5#.
If 26...Rh8, then 27. Re4 Nf4+ 28. Kg4.
|Sep-03-17|| ||Honey Blend: <al wazir: What happens after 26. f3 ?
If 26...Nf4+, then 27. Kh2 Rg2+ 28. Kh1 Qh8 29. Qxb4+ Kd7 (29...Kd8 30. Qb8+; 29...Kf6 30. Qc3+) 30. Qb7+ Kd6 31. Qc7+ Kd5 32. Qc5#.|
If 26...Rh8, then 27. Re4 Nf4+ 28. Kg4.>
26. f3 ♘f4+ 27. ♔h2 ♕xb2+ decides.
|Sep-03-17|| ||nalinw: What about
I see only
|Sep-03-17|| ||beatgiant: <nalinw>
See <Helloween>'s post of Mar-06-05 above <25.Kf3 Qd4 26.Re4 Qf6+ 27.Ke2 Qxb2+ 28.Ke1 Qc3+ 29.Kd1 Rd8>
|Sep-03-17|| ||Walter Glattke: 27.-Qf6+ 0-1, but 28.Qb4+|
|Sep-03-17|| ||leRevenant: Attila the hunted.|
|Sep-03-17|| ||gofer: Well, the start seems to be clear...
<23 ... Rxh4>
White cannot really accept the opening of the h file, quite so easily and
the problem with 24 Rh1 as response is that it leads to an easily won endgame
24 Rh1 Rxh1
25 Rxh1 Ne3+! (Kg1 Rxh1+ Kxh1 Qb7+ mating)
26 fxe3 Qb7+
27 Kf2 Rxh1
Black threatens Rh2+ King anywhere Qh1#. White now has to choose between Qxb4+ losing
and e4 dancing with death...
28 Qxb4+ Qxb4+
29 Nxb4 Rh2+
30 Kf3 Rxb2
31 Nc6+ Kd6 +-
28 e4 Qxe4
29 Qxb4+ Kf6
30 Qc3+ Kg6 +-
Not accepting the sacrifice and not playing 24 Rh1 allows Rh2+ winning easily, so it
looks like white has to accept the rook sacrifice!
<24 gxh4 Qd4>
As neither Na6 nor Qa4 can give check immediately, it looks like black has one free
move with which to start an attack. The threat being Qg4+ mating, so white must defend
against that threat...
25 Rh1 Rg8+
26 Kf1 Qd3+ (Kf3 Qg4#)
27 Re2 Qb1+!
28 Re1 Ne3+!
29 Ke2 Qd3+ (fxe3 Qf5+ 30 Ke2 Rg2+ 31 Kd1 Qb1#)
30 Kf3 Nc2+
31 Re3 Nd4+
32 Kf4 Qf5#
25 Kg3 Qf4+ mating
25 f3 Rg8+
26 Nf4+ Kh2
27 Qxb2+ mating
25 f4 Rg8+
26 Kf3 Qxf4+ (Kh3 Qd3+ mating or Kh2 Qd2+ mating)
27 Ke2 Rg2+ mating
25 Qd1 Rg8+
26 Kh3 Nf4+
27 Kh2 Qf6 mating
Hmmm, I played Qd4 one move early, I hope/think this is still okay!
|Sep-03-17|| ||morfishine: <23...Rxh4> followed soon by Queen invasion via <d6> would've been my guess. For some reason, I overlooked the much better hole at <d4> :(|
Wow, Dvoretsky sure finished him off quick
|Sep-03-17|| ||Honza Cervenka: 24...Qd4 is a good alternative to 24..Rg8+, and in fact it is easier to calculte.|
|Sep-03-17|| ||gofer: Actually, I think the Rg8+ has to come first. It activates the rook, which might never get activated otherwise.|
I have been looking at Kf3 as a defence to Qd4 and it has riggle room... ...at the very least.
|Sep-03-17|| ||Honza Cervenka: <gofer: Actually, I think the Rg8+ has to come first. It activates the rook, which might never get activated otherwise.|
I have been looking at Kf3 as a defence to Qd4 and it has riggle room... ...at the very least.>
24...Qd4 25.Kf3 Qf6+ 26.Ke2 (what else?) 26...Qxb2+ 27.Kf3 Qf6+ 28.Ke2 Nc3+ etc.
|Sep-03-17|| ||malt: Got the same as <gofer>
24...Qd4 25.Rh1 Rg8+ 26.Kf1 Qd3+ 27.Re2 Qb1+ 28.Re1 Ne3+ 29.Ke2
(29.fe3 Qf5+ 30.Ke2 Rg2+ mating)
29.Ke2 Qd3+ 30.Kf3 Nc2+ 31.Re3 Nd4+
On 24..Rg8+ 25.Kh2 Qd4 26.Re3 Q:h4+
(26...Qf4+ 27.Rg3 )
27.Rh3 Qf4+ 28.Kh1 Qg4 29.Rg3 Rh8+
30.Kg2 Nf4+ 31.Kg1 Ne2+ 32.Kg2 Qe4+
33.f3 (33.Rf3 Nf4+ 34.Kg1 Rh1+ mating)
33...Nf4+ 34.Kg1 Qe3+ 35.Rf2 Qe1+
|Sep-03-17|| ||patzer2: Stockfish 8 agrees with <Honza Cervenka> on the initial follow-up to today's Sunday puzzle solution <23...Rxh4!! 24. gxh4> in picking 24...Qd4! -+ (mate-in-23 @ 36 depth) as its first choice over 24...Rg8+ -+ (-25.00 @ 35 depth):|
[Stockfish 8 64] 36:M23} 24...Qd4 25.Rg1 Rg8+ 26.Kf3 Rxg1 27.Qd7+ Kxd7 28.Nc5+ Qxc5 29.Rxg1 Qd4 30.h5 Qf4+ 31.Kg2 Qg4+ 32.Kh2 Qxh5+ 33.Kg3 Qg5+ 34.Kh2 Qh4+ 35.Kg2 Nf4+ 36.Kf3 Nd3 37.Kg2 Qxf2+ 38.Kh1 Qf3+ 39.Kh2 Nf2 40.Rg7 Ng4+ 41.Rxg4 Qxg4 42.a4 bxa3 43.bxa3 c3 44.Kh1 c2 45.Kh2 c1=Q 46.a4 Qh6#
[Stockfish 8 64] 35:-25.00} 24...Rg8+ 25.Kf3 Qd4 26.Qxb4+ Nxb4 27.Nxb4 Qf6+ 28.Ke4 Qxb2 29.Nc6+ Kd6 30.Nd8 Rxd8 31.Rd1+ Kc7 32.Rxd8 Qe2+ 33.Kd4 Kxd8 34.Rc1 Qd2+ 35.Kxc4 Qxc1+ 36.Kd3 Qe1 37.f3 Qb1+ 38.Ke2 Qxa2+ 39.Kf1 Qa1+ 40.Kg2 Ke7 41.Kh3 Qc3 42.Kg4 Qb2 43.Kh3 Qe2 44.Kg4 Qg2+ 45.Kf4 Qg7 46.Ke3 Qc3+ 47.Ke2 Qc1 48.Kd3 Qd1+ 49.Kc4 Qa4+ 50.Kd3 Qb3+ 51.Ke2 Qa2+ 52.Ke3 Qa4
Disregarding silly piece sacrifices and spite checks to delay mate, the winning line with 24...Qd4! goes:
[25.f3 Rg8+ 26.Kh3 Nf4+ 27.Kh2 Qd2+ 28.Re2 Qxe2+ 29.Rf2 Qxf2+ 30.Kh1 Qg2#;
25.Qd1 Rg8+ 26.Kh3 Nf4+ 27.Kh2 Qf6 +-;
25.Re3 Qg4+ 26.Rg3 Nf4+ 27.Kg1 Qxh4 +-;
25.Kf3 Rxh4 26.Rg1 (26.Ke2 Qd3#) 26...Rf4+ 27.Kg2 (27.Ke2 Rxf2#) 27...Qxf2+ 28.Kh3 Rh4#]
[26.Kh3 Nf4+ 27.Kh2 Qxf2+ 28.Kh1 Qxh4#]
<26...Rxg1 27.Rxg1 Qd3+ 28.Kg4>
[28.Kg2 Nf4+ 29.Kh2 Qh3#]
[29.Kg5 Qf5+ 30.Kh6 Qh5+ 31.Kg7 Qh7#]
<29...Nh5+ 30.Ke5 f6#.>
P.S.: In trying to solve today's rerun Sunday puzzle today, I vaguely recalled the winning line from 11 years ago was 23...Rxh4!!, but after 24. gxh4 Rh8+ 25. Kf3 I could not remember and did not find the only winning follow-up 25...Qd4! -+. Since all moves other than 25...Qd4! turn the tables and allow White to steal the win, I can't give myself credit for solving today's difficult Sunday puzzle.
|Sep-03-17|| ||patzer2: Black's decisive mistake appears to be 20. Qa4+?, allowing 20...Ke7 -+ (-2.94 @ 30 depth, Stockfish 8.)|
Instead, 20. Qf3 Rd8 21. Qf4 Rg6 22. Ne4 Nxe4 23. Qxe4 = (-0.13 @ 38 depth, Stockfish 8) keeps White in the fight with near level chances.
Earlier, in the opening, instead of 15. Bg2 b5 16. Ne4 = (0.00 @ 28 depth), Stockfish 8 prefers creating difficult complications for Black with 15. Qd2 ⩲ to ± (+0.60 @ 31 depth) as in White's win in Shirov vs Kamsky, 1987 or the draw in A Gupta vs Kohlweyer, 2007.
|Sep-03-17|| ||saturn2: My move was 23..Qd4 but I think now it fails because of simply 24 Rh1.
He who has the advantage has to act fast. Therefore 23..Rxh4 is the winner.|
|Sep-03-17|| ||Jimfromprovidence: Instead of taking the rook, white can set up a little trap with 24 Nxb4, below (threatening 25 Nxd5+).|
click for larger view
It's black to play and win.
|Sep-03-17|| ||chrisowen: Nap h4s hoods lug h4s hooks v ink hunks g8s ghosthung jive by hocks 25.Kh3 jo huck hog kin by hound 25.Kh1 jo ho bottle of rum 5 ousts conts vow d4s doors o d1s da bondus 26.Qxb4+ jod bands 8 9 ousts conts vow vim f4s fonds u h2s hub by fluffus 27...Qf6 doves fluffon bud mate 6 ave bind vim ave jap pan ask mask got bid vim dib q rue hole wave fc cozy it's vast bane vine tinky it's vast ban ie toky it's vast bane vine kitty vint bake tiny viva flav beak beat inky abet beta batik yen banis tyke bank yeti intake by kenya bit low eve luv von guv vim akin byte yank bite h4s hoods vet vim us hive any joy jap pan jan packs ask mask jacks ave i akin his ms mug go bot vim dib bid quid brought over q rue ol hole query how wave fc cozy it's vast bane vine by hud 23Rxh4 24.gxh4 Rg8+ cfo mans ghosthunt bond bind vim bivowauc bid bide biff big bill vow bun vid blip bird bit low eve von luv von guv h4s hoods hooks hucks huffs honk hulk hud hod vim duff doff cap vat huff hoof flush fond flush hoods fog flung fun gust guv nub duff dog dug by hucks 25.Kh3 jo; |
hunks 25.Kh1 jo ho bottle of rum 5 ousts conts;
vow vim by doors 25Qd4 26.Qd1 jd da bondus 26.Qxb4+ jod bands 8 9 ousts conts vow by founds 26Nf4+ cuff door fonts by hubever 27.Kh2 Qf6 doves fluffon bud mate 6 ave i bind vim midas vow moods muds dumbs down dom mod modes aid vim bud culls hunt rook cull fog hoof hunk down bud pup pop low eve luv von guv bottoms up host husk husk hups buck club cob gob bog bung bug grub uvs clung cod cud goof flung fog guff doc dock quoffs ums fc he duck mob acrobat hand add it low eve luv von guv vims nap pan ave jap h4s hoods.
|Sep-03-17|| ||Strelets: This is a good time to bring up quality of position and how it affects games. White's knight and queen are so far out of the game by the time 23...Rxh4! hits that they need a taxi to get back into the action. By the time the queen gets back to d1 from an a-file sojourn it's too late and the king is under fatal assault. That's what determines the success of decisions as committal as the sacrifice of a rook here: whether or not important defensive pieces are otherwise occupied and short of the time needed to get involved again.|
|Sep-03-17|| ||al wazir: <Honey Blend: 26. f3 ♘f4+ 27. ♔h2 ♕xb2+ decides.> Of course! Fake left, go right! I never looked at that. Thanks.|
|Sep-04-17|| ||stst: late, still try...some ideas only
..... Nf4 to sac, then RxP and get down to back rank etc
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