chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Boquay vs NN
Gedult,D-Sauzedde (1864)
Uncommon Opening (A00)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

find similar games 960 more games of NN
sac: 13.Bxh6 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can learn a lot about this site (and chess in general) by reading the Chessgames Help Page. If you need help with premium features, please see the Premium Membership Help Page.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-13-14  Overgod: I found a superior move myself (without using Houdini, although I later checked it with Houdini, and mated him about 20 moves later -- he did resign about 5 moves later though, but I forced him to continue playing!)

The superior move is 16.Bg6+, and if queen takes (forced), 17. Ng5+ wins the queen.

Now, in the initial analysis, it doesn't look that great, because black has three minor pieces for white's queen and pawn. The problem, however, is that black's position is so bad, that in order to avoid mate threats, it has to give up another 2 (two!) minor pieces! So, first we sac the exchange on 19. Rxf6! and because of the pin on f6, black loses that rook on the next move. After this, he has to give up the poorly placed knight on c6, to avoid being mated. So, white has already won 2 minor pieces AND a queen + pawn, for three of his own minor pieces. Black will also collapse on the back rank soon afterward, because white just doubles with rook and queen on the back rank, and black is completely lost.

If he tries to defend with king (which is what Houdini did), you simply push the h-pawn, and black has no way of preventing it from queening, unless he further wants to lose both bishop and rook immediately.

Anyway, I claim that my move is superior, simply because of Houdini's evaluation: he gives my move a +16, and he gives Boquay's move a +8. Yes, Boquay has still completely won, but he has still some work to do in order to win, and crucially, black still has his queen.

With my variation, black has no queen left, and all his minor pieces are being gobbled up.

Nice little puzzle, with a superior alternative solution. Perhaps cg.com should consider superior alternatives?

Mar-13-14  paavoh: @FSR: Perhaps the game score came from Gedult or from his files/notes, and his name was retained in the header by oversight.
Mar-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: White has a pawn for a knight.

Black threatens 15... Qxh6.

The knight on f6 protects the black queen and the black king protects the rook on f8. These details suggest 15.Bh7+, trying to divert that knight or the black king:

A) 15... Kf7 16.Bg6+ Qxg6 17.Ng5+ Qxg5 (else 18.Qxg6 + - [Q+P vs B+N]) 18.Qxg5 Ke7 19.Rxf6 Rxf6 20.Rf1 followed by 21.Rxf6 + - [Q+P vs B+N].

B) 15... Kh8 16.Qxf8+ Kxh7 17.Qxf6 + - [R+P vs B] and attack.

C) 15... Nxh7 16.Qxh5 + - [Q+P vs B+N] and attack.

Mar-13-14  PJs Studio: 16.Ne5! Bring it!!
Mar-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: StockFish evaluates 16.Bg6+ at about +12 and 16.Ne5+ at about +11, so they are more or less equally crushing.
Mar-13-14  ASchultz: Hm, computer analysis of the game shows white could also have won with 12 Bxf6 Rxf6 13 Ng5 or 13 Bxf6 Rxf6 14 Qe4.

It looks like the computer thinks Black can maybe survive with Qe7-g7-h8--I played this against a Stonewall once back in high school after a sac against my kingside where I'd played g6 and got away with it. But it was long and drawn out & my opponent made a few endgame mistakes.

Mar-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: I saw the main moves clearly but the background was fuzzy and out-of-focus.
Mar-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  gofer: <15 Bh7+ ...>

15 ... Nxh7
16 Qxh5

15 ... Kh8
16 Qxf8+ Kxh7
17 Qxf6

<15 ... Kf7>
<16 Ne5+! ...>

16 ... Nxe5
17 Rxf6+ Ke8/Ke7
18 Qxf8+ Kd7
19 Qg7+

16 ... dxe5
17 Rxf6+ Ke8/Ke7
18 Qxf8+ Kd7
19 Rf7+

16 ... Qxe5?
17 dxe5

16 ... Ke7
17 Ng6+

16 ... Ke8
17 Bg6+

I see nothing but pain...

~~~

Yep...

Mar-13-14  lentil: I'm willing to bet that the players were David Gedult and some person named Sauzedde, in a place called "Boquay" = "Bouquet, France"? The only problem is that Gedult was born in 1897. But he did play games until 1989, although he died in 1981, so I think all dates are suspect (the 1989 game went 41!! moves). Perhaps this game was played in 1964? (Or maybe this was Gedult's father (uncle) who taught the famous Gedult "how to play"?)
Mar-13-14  dufferps: It may be a long battle, but NN had no way out that I could find -

1. Ng6+ Kd7 2. Nxf8+ Kd8 ( 2... Ke8 3. Bg6+ Ke7 ( 3... Qxg6 4. Nxg6 Ne7 5. Qf8+ Kd7 6. Qxf6 Ng8 7. Nf8+ Kc6 8. Qf3+ ( 8. Qf3+ d5 9. Rab1 b5 10. Ng6 a6 11. Ne5+ Kb7 12. c4 Ka7 13. cxb5 Bb7 14. Qa3 Kb8 15. Nd7+ Kc8 16. Nc5 axb5 17. Qxa8+ Bxa8 18. Rxb5 Bc6 19. Ra5 Ne7 20. Nxe6 Kd7 21. Nc5+ Kd8 22. Rf8+ Be8 23. Ra8+ Nc8 24. Rh8 c6 25. Rb8 Kc7 26. Rb7+ Kd8 27. Ne6# ) ) 4. Bxh5 Ne5 5. Qxf6# ) 3. Qxf6+ Ke8 4. Bg6+ Qxg6 5. Qxg6+ Ke7 6. Qf7+ Kd8 7. Nxe6+ Bxe6 8. Qxe6 Ne7 9. Rf8#

Mar-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: '< offramp: I saw the main moves clearly but the background was fuzzy and out-of-focus.> This was a photography joke.
Mar-13-14  Cheapo by the Dozen: Ohh. Now I get it.

15 Bh7+ Kf7 (forced as per my lines above)
16 Ne5+ Ke7 (else the queen is immediately lost)
17 Ng6+

and now

17 ... Ke8/Ke7
18 Qxf8#

or

17 ... Kd8/d7
18 Qxh5 Nxh5
19 Rxf8

winning easily (so I won't check whether there's something better yet).

Mar-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Hmm. Should've thought of 15...Kf7 (15...Nxh7 loses the queen, and 15...Kh8 loses the queen as well to 16.Bg6+), but looks like this line leads to the win of a rook.
Mar-13-14  Patriot: White is down a piece for a pawn. Black threatens 15...Qxh6.

This looks like a removal of the guard theme.

15.Bh7+

15...Nxh7 16.Qxh5

15...Kf7 16.Ng5+ Ke8 17.Bg6+

15...Kf7 16.Ng5+ Ke7 17.Rxf6 Qxh6 18.Rxh6 leaves white slightly ahead. Not sure there is anything better here.

One possibility is...

15...Kf7 16.Bg6+ Qxg6 17.Ng5+ Qxg5 18.Qxg5 - I like this! At first I dismissed it but this is looking really good for white after taking a more serious look (I'm trying to be careful about "hand waiving"). 18...Ke7 19.Rxf6 Rxf6 20.Rf1 looks very strong.

Mar-13-14  Patriot: I forgot to mention 15...Kh8 16.Qxf8+, etc.

So white played 16.Ne5+. I think 16.Bg6+ is also very good.

Mar-13-14  Castleinthesky: "Roses for Boquay"
Mar-13-14  mathlover: where did black go wrong?
Mar-13-14  BOSTER: < FSR I'm first ?! How can that be ?! >. Most chess players prefer to watch events from Khanty -Mansiysk, not to spend time here.
Mar-13-14  Whitehat1963: Totally clueless in this one. Not sure why.
Mar-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Whitehat1963: Totally clueless in this one.>

My reaction to more than one forcing process, come Sunday puzzles.

Mar-13-14  haydn20: <mathlover: where did black go wrong?> 1...e5 pretty much squashes White's plans. So: 1. f3? f5? and we're off to the races. Ah, the "Romantic" era!
Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: <haydn20: <mathlover: where did black go wrong?> 1...e5 pretty much squashes White's plans. So: 1. f3? f5? and we're off to the races. Ah, the "Romantic" era!>

Yes, one-square pawn moves by White are well met by central two-square pawn moves by Black a knight's move away, avoiding the lever (in this case 2.e4) that White's first move set up. So respond to 1.f3 with 1...e5 rather than 1...d5 or 1...f5? Respond to 1.c3 and 1.e3 with 1...d5 (rather than 1...c5 or 1...e5, when 2.d4 is likely to give White a Slav or Caro-Kann with an extra tempo).

Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: 15.Bh7+ Kf7 16.Bg6+ Qxg6 17.Ng5+ and White wins

*****
PM: I didn't consder 16.Ne5; very nice

*****

Mar-14-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: White,with queen under fire, throws another piece to the wolves.
Sep-08-14  Ke2: well this is a fun opening :)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any member Iincludinfgall Admin and Owners or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. If you think someone is an idiot, then provide evidence that their reasoning is invalid and/or idiotic, instead of just calling them an idiot. It's a subtle but important distinction, even in political discussions.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
Uf3 tried to snare Fredthebear
by fredthebear
Gedult Opening/Barnes Opening 1.f3 turned into a gambit
from Ware Art Thou, O' Fredthebear? Strange Days Here by fredthebear
15th move W to play
from Tactical Problem solving of Star level by FLAWLESSWIN64
Thursday; March 13th, 2014. (WTM, 15. '?') [Wild Tactics!]
from "Chess-Games" >Problem of The Day< (2014) by Jaredfchess
Thursday; March 13th, 2014. (WTM, 15. '?') [Wild Tactics!]
from "Chess-Games" >Problem of The Day< (2014) by LIFE Master AJ
15.? (Thursday, March 13)
from Puzzle of the Day 2014 by Phony Benoni
17 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection VI by wwall
Uncommon Openings
by Morphischer
15.? (March 13, 2014)
from Thursday Puzzles, 2011-2017 by Phony Benoni
Uncommon Openings
by Sudgon


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC