< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|May-11-05|| ||jahhaj: <ThomYorke> The position after 70.♔a8 g1=♕ 71.♖xg1 ♖a2+ is an example of the Lucena position. It's won for White and well worth knowing how.|
Try playing through the ending at this site http://www.lokasoft.com/uk/tbweb.htm to see the win.
|May-11-05|| ||jahhaj: <ChessMan94> <what's wrong with 70. Rg1?> It doesn't win, black just checks the white king if it comes out from behind the pawn and white can't make any progress.|
|May-11-05|| ||The beginner: <Chessman 94>
I think your idea is the back rank mate(since you suggest to promoto to a rook, and not a queen), unfortuanetly it dosent work.
70 Ka8 ..g1=R
71 Ra7 ..Rg8+
72 b8=Q+ ..Kf6
White could also just pick up the rook
71 Rxg1 wich leeds to a win for white after white brings his rook between his king and black's rook. When white's king step out to give room for his pawn black can desperatly try to give checks, but white can just zigzag his king towards the black rook until black is forced to move out of the way.
The first move Ka8 is pretty easy to see,It seems to be the only logical move when one knows there is a win for white in the position.
The sequence of moves after black play Rb1 on the other hand is very hard to see if one is not a strong player.
The advantage for white seems to be the tempo, no matter how black play he will always be one move behind, and is forced into a kinda simple "mousetrap" mate.
I gues this is more advanced version of a classic beginner puzzle end game lesson.
White has a rook on a8, pawn on a7, king on c5. Black has rook on a1, king on c3. White to play and win.
|May-11-05|| ||kevin86: A fine variation of Lucena's position-with a twist. This is also a twist on this week's theme of pawns on the 7th.This time,both have pawns just about to promote.|
|May-11-05|| ||YouRang: I got it, but it took a me couple minutes. Admittedly, I didn't see the clear win, but it just seemed that for white to promote to a queen with check was the best he could do.|
Very good puzzle! (I love the ones that look like they should be simple, but require subtle cleverness.)
|May-11-05|| ||riqhi: I found this problem too difficult for wednesday :(|
|May-11-05|| ||Skepticus: Is it wrong to play ♔c7? I think it also wins.|
|May-11-05|| ||aw1988: <skepticus> Why allow Rc2+?|
|May-11-05|| ||jahhaj: <Skepticus> I thought so too but Marvol found a flaw, see earlier posts.|
|May-11-05|| ||Boomie: 70. ♔c7? ♖c2+ 71. ♔b6 ♖b2+ 72. ♔a7 ♖a2+! 73. ♖xa2 g1=♕+ 74. ♔a8 ♕h1! is the problem with ♔c7|
|May-11-05|| ||pwolff: Can anyone see the win after 70..g1=Q 71. Rxg1?|
|May-11-05|| ||WannaBe: <pwolff> How on earth is 71. ♖xg1 ?
White's ♖ is over on a7!|
|May-11-05|| ||pwolff: <WannaBe> 70. Ka8 g1=Q (instead of 70. Ka8 Rf1) and then I suppose white's best move is 71. Rxg1 with a possible continuation 71.. Ra2+ 72. Kb8 Kd7 etc...|
|May-11-05|| ||WannaBe: <pwolff> Ah, I beg your pardon, got my position & numbers mixed up.|
|May-11-05|| ||Boomie: <pwolf> The technique involves moving the rook to a square where it can shield the king from checks. For example:|
70... g1=♕ 71. ♖xg1 ♖a2+ 72. ♔b8 ♔d7 73. ♖d1+ ♔e7 74. ♖d4 ♔e6 75. ♔c7 ♖c2+ 76. ♔b6 ♖b2+ 77. ♔c6 ♖b1 78. ♖d6+ ♔e7 79. ♖d5
Now black can't stop the pawn from queening with checks.
|May-11-05|| ||Richard Taylor: I got this -first thought of Ra7 with the idea of the dicovered check idea but then got to Ka8 ...hmm - I maybe last but not least please dont take EGO's lastness from him!! EGO is proud he solved it quickly! But White maybe could have forced the pace before the endgame -and black seemed to drift into a bad variation of the QG...tempi won this game....|
|May-11-05|| ||aginis: i think the key point is to realize it is very difficult for a grandmaster NOT to win a QvR position. The 8 QvR draws in the chessgames database break down as follows: 2 result from positions where the rook can force the exchange immediately when the pawn queens,2 games were the rook is forcibly sacraficed with stalemate, 1 agreed draw (6 move in, after missing a relativly simple 3 move K,R fork so i suspect time trouble) and 3 draws after the 50 move rule.
However most GM's can force the king to the edge of the board, and while the final touch is rather difficult the rook side can not force a draw unless the queen side allows a stalemate. and since the 50 move rule usually allows 3 or 4 tries once the king is on the edge of the board. Thus a GM can probably figure it out by trial and error. |
I am familiar with the situation when it comes to BBKvK mates. I can get the king into the corner pretty fast then it takes me ten moves or so to remeber how to finish the deed, but i always get the mate.
|May-12-05|| ||ksk48fi: Thanks for many analysis.
For me it was difficult to see
the winning compination.
Maybe this was beyond resoning,
computer analysis. Mayby this was
a fight between minds, not between
|May-12-05|| ||Skepticus: Thanks <jahhaj>, I looked at Marvol post. I missed those posts the first time.|
|Jun-03-05|| ||billcrutcher: I'm not sure what the position was for the puzzle, as I missed it when it first appeared. But in the game itself, I am wondering why Black took the pawn on e7 at move 69.|
Isn't 69. ... Rf1 winning for Black?
I'll have to run it through Fritz when I get home.
|Aug-07-05|| ||Whitehat1963: What a phenomenal endgame battle!! This is worthy of Capablanca, Rubinstein and Lasker!|
|Sep-22-06|| ||gauer: now I'm not so sure if Rubinstein was the best R+P ending player ever...|
|Mar-06-07|| ||MathijsJanssen: Why not 66...Kxe7 ?|
|Aug-18-08|| ||4tmac: If 70. Kc7? Rc2+ 71. Kb8 Ra2! Black also uses this method (checking and "opposing" the rook in other variations, too. 70. Ka8! Rf1 71. Ra7!! g1=Q 72. b8=Q+ wins "easily" (with a TB!)|
click for larger view
...Kf6 73. Qf8+ Ke5 74. Qe8+ Kd5 75. Rd7+ Kc5 76. Qe5+ Kb4 77. Qe4+ Kb5 78. Qd5+ Kb4 79. Rb7+ Kc3 80. Rb3+ etc.
|Jun-30-09|| ||WhiteRook48: awhat about 72...Ke6? 73 Ra6+|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·