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Siegbert Tarrasch vs Schroeder
Nurnberg (1894)  ·  Chess variants (000)  ·  1-0
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find similar games 4 more Tarrasch/Schroeder games
sac: 23.Qxh7+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-28-07  controlaltdelete: the knight on f3 isn't there anymore in the actual game, but according to the frontpage one could play Nh4+ after the Queen sack right .. or does the manouver Kh5-g4 save black?
May-28-07  malthrope: <controlaltdelete: the knight on f3 isn't there anymore in the actual game, but according to the frontpage one could play Nh4+ after the Queen sack right .. or does the manouver Kh5-g4 save black?>

Did you overlook my post (with diagram) given just below? I analyzed that line with 'tongue-in-cheek' and after 1. Qxh7+ Kxh7 2. hxg++ Kxg6 3. Nh4+ for if 3... Kh5 then just 4. Bd1# ;-) - Mal

May-28-07  WarmasterKron: Curses. I eventually saw the whole mating line, then saw the knight 'guarding' h6 and gave up.

Of course, pinned pieces guard nothing and if I'd noticed the pin I'd have been fine.

May-28-07  prinsallan: <Larsker>Yep, that was exactly what I meant. CG.com. Queensac every monday is kind of boring and obvious. If you found at least another solution half of the mondays these puzzles would teach us much, much more. No nag intended, just friendly critisicm.
May-28-07  kkshethin: I think there is error in the record. it should be 12.Nb1-d2 instead of 12.Nf3-d2. If this was corrected then starting of game without night at b1 and showing of Night at f3 at puzzle stage wil be solved.
May-28-07  IMDONE4: <Larsker>, <prinsallan> arent mondays SUPPOSED to be easy and obvious?
May-28-07  Kwesi: I reckon an early ...Bf5 was necessary
May-28-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: these holiday Mondays always throw me off...I solve the puzzle and briefly think I must be getting better, then I remember it's just Monday.

I think these puzzles get a ridiculous amount of criticism, especially the Monday puzzles. For the millionth time, Monday is <supposed> to be easy. And even so, a few people miss the Monday puzzle every week, which is a pretty good indication that cg.com shouldn't make it harder.

If you find yourself insulted or bored by the Monday puzzle, just skip it and wait until later in the week. And stop whining.

May-28-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: Again, a puzzle made easier by the knowledge that it is Monday. It took me a couple passes of the 23. Qxh7+ line to solve it, because I didn't notice the first time that the knight ended up pinned by the bishop, and thus offered no resistance to 26. Rh6#. Good puzzle.
May-28-07  greensfield: First played 23.hxg6 and worked out 3 variations all leading mate. Then I realised that my Queen had been under the cosh all the time, and quickly found the right moves starting 23. Qh7+. Got there in the end.
May-28-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: Schroder was good enough of a player to beat Tarrasch, given rook odds: Tarrasch vs Schroeder, 1892

<IMDONE4: <Larsker>, <prinsallan> arent mondays SUPPOSED to be easy and obvious?>

Yes, they are. But in fairness, I think the point that <Larsker> and <prinsallan> were making was not about *easiness*, but about *diversity*. If I understand them correctly, they don't want to make Monday puzzles harder -- they would just like to see a wider variety of themes (in particular, not using queen sac theme so frequently).

I don't think that's a bad idea. I find that often on Mondays, a good puzzle is "solved" by merely looking for a queen sac, rather than doing the more rewarding analysis, which is sort of unfortunate.

May-28-07  GoldenKnight: <RookFile> Good to see you again! Your name has come up during our game vs. Yury Schulman. Are you going to be with us when we play CCWC Gert Jan Timmerman?
May-28-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  dzechiel: <kkshethin: I think there is error in the record. it should be 12.Nb1-d2 instead of 12.Nf3-d2. If this was corrected then starting of game without night at b1 and showing of Night at f3 at puzzle stage wil be solved.>

Your line of thought is good, but white's 15th move shows that it's not the case.

May-28-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: A easy queen sac and mate in three. Add that to the "incentive" given by black who "trapped" white's queen.
May-28-07  jhoro: CG has the wrong diagram on the front page. they've put an extra Knight on f3


click for larger view

May-28-07  jhoro: i told them yesterday that the Ponomariov vs Rublevsky, 2007 game was wrong, which they fixed, but then they also removed my message. no one likes being caught. let's see if they'll do it again :)
May-28-07  Shadout Mapes: 1. ...d5 is a rather effective opening move when white plays without the queen's knight.
May-28-07  GBKnight: This was presumably played at 'knight odds' - theoretically black is winning at move 1 a piece ahead, so the diagram is correct..
May-28-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  fm avari viraf: To be candid, I dislike to see a game when odds are given. This proves that the player who gives odds is a very strong player & therefore, he has ample chances to win & that doesn't make any sense to me.
May-28-07  jhoro: <GBKnight>, look again. Tarrasch lost his last (and only Knight) on move 17. how come he has another Knight (on f3) at move 23?
May-28-07  patzer2: White utilizes the pin to support a mate in three with 23. Qxh7+!
May-28-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheAlchemist: <Schroder was good enough of a player to beat Tarrasch, given rook odds: Tarrasch vs Schroeder, 1892>

Which means Tarrasch was only 4 pawns better than Schroeder

May-28-07  GBKnight: The diagram is wrong, but if you play through the game no second knight appears on f3
May-28-07  tacite: <RookFile : Agreed, this also forces checkmate in short order. Of course, Qxh7+ is shorter and prettier.> The sacrifice of a Queen is prettier? That's an Othello point of view ;-)
Jan-24-09  WhiteRook48: 2. e5 isn't played today
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>

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