< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
|Nov-29-05|| ||chessgames.com: Nothing needs to be fixed; the Noteboom Variation is a subset of the Queen's Gambit Declined (D31), so both are correct. The software which determines the specific named variation is currently in development. Once it's working, we plan on replacing the broad ECO designations ("D31 Queen's Gambit Declined") for the much superior names from the Caxton database ("D31: Semi-Slav Defense: Noteboom Variation") but until that time, the Caxton names only appear in a few limited contexts, one of them being at the top of game pages.|
Eric Schiller can tell you more about the Caxton opening classification system.
|Nov-29-05|| ||weary willy: <EmperorAtahualpa: But if I click on "find similar games to these", I still only find Queen's Gambit Declined games...> Yes - but they are the same Abrahams (Noteboom) variation. And interesting they are, too. Have a look at Buckley-Richmond (in a cool dark room with a black coffee and Fritz!)|
|Nov-29-05|| ||Saruman: <Hoozits> 31.-a2 32.fxg7 Qxg7 33.Rxf8+ Kxf8 34.Qc8+ (34.Rd8+ Kf7 seems unclear (Ke7 Qd7#)) Kf7 35.Rd7+ Kg6 36.Qxa6+ Kh5 (Kf5 Qd3+ Ke6 Qd5+ Kf5 Rf7+ ). 37.Qe2+ Qg4 I analyzed up to this point, but now I recieved aid from SigmaChess 38.Rxh7+ Kg5 39.h4+ Qxh4 40.Qe3+ Qf4 (Kg6 Qd3+) 41.Rg7+ Kf5 42.Rf7+ Ke6 Now SigmaChess announces # in 9 43.Qb3+ Kxe5 44.Re7+ Kd4 45.Rd7+ Ke5 46.Qd5+ Kf6 47.Qf7+ Kg5 48.Rd5+ Qf5 49.Rxf5+ Kg4 50.Qh5+ Kg3 51.Rf3#.|
|Nov-29-05|| ||Saruman: Or 32.-Re8 33.Rf8+ Rxf8 34.gxf8D+ Kxf8 35.Rd8+ Ke7 36.Qg5+ Kf7 37.Qg8+ Ke7 38.Qe8#.|
|Nov-29-05|| ||Stefan Lukke: I stand corrected. Slav Abrahams / Noteboom variation it is. Thank you both <Chessgames> & <weary willy> for clearing that up as I was driving myself crazy figuring it out! Now I have the knowledge if this ever happens to me again.|
|Nov-29-05|| ||Hoozits: Thank you, Saruman.|
|Nov-29-05|| ||Darknite: <saruman> why is 32. fxg7 forced after 31...a2? isnt 32. Qc4+ worth looking at? its certainly complex!!|
|Nov-29-05|| ||Saruman: <darknite> Of course 32.fxg7 isnt forced, but I rejected Qc4+ because it looks worse, even though it was one of my top candidates. Certainly it is probably winning, but perhaps not as decisve.|
For instance 32.Qc4+ Kh8 33.fxg7 Qxg7 34.Qxa6 b1Q I dont know what to do.
BTW this is very complex!
|Nov-29-05|| ||EmperorAtahualpa: Thanks <chessgames.com>. So this really is a Queen's Gambit Declined. I am curious what <Eric Schiller> can tell us about it.|
<Eric Schiller> Good afternoon! Hope you are reading this. Could you please explain to us the Caxton system in a nutshell, if possible? I would be much obliged.
|Nov-29-05|| ||weary willy: Can I just come back to my first comment ... can anyone point to another game with 3 connected passed pawns on the seventh rank?|
|Nov-29-05|| ||kevin86: I once saw an example of FOUR connected pawns on the seventh. This one is doubly odd as black promotes twice in addition to white's triplets.|
It's a draw because NEITHER player can save the game!
|Nov-29-05|| ||Darknite: <saruman> having now spent more than 30 seconds looking at this i must apologize - your lines certainly appear to be best. Qc4 may actually just lose!|
|Nov-29-05|| ||JoeWms: <Ger7ry> The 8 in cu8sfan my brain can handle. But your 7 eludes me. Give up your secret for this rube's cube.|
|Nov-29-05|| ||Saruman: <Darknight><Qc4 may actually just lose!>|
My thoughts exactly!
|Nov-29-05|| ||child of my tears: <Hoozits> White has too many threats of his own for black to have the luxury of pushing these pawns at move 31. White could just ignore it and play 32.e6 or something. At least I think that is why, I don't have time to check with Fritz|
|Nov-29-05|| ||Eric Schiller: <EmperorA>This is a Noteboom Variation, named for a Dutch player, Daniel Noteboom. It is one of the more exciting lines of the QGD and was quite popular a few years back.|
The Caxton project is a public domain resource I have been working on for more than a decade, tracking down opening names and other chess information. It has been hosted at Chess City, but that site is offline so I'm moving it to my own website soon. Anyone can contribute. The list now has almost 3000 named openings and aliases. You can download the opening materials from http://www.ericschiller.com/resourc...
Chessgames is trying to implement this extensive opening list so we don't have to suffer from the shoddy ECO system. Then we can have pages devoted to openings by name, instead of combining sometimes hundreds of openings in a catch-all code like A00.
|Nov-29-05|| ||Saruman: <child of my tears> See my posts.
32.e6(?)b1Q 33.e7 Qxd1+ 34.Qxd1 for example gxf6 and I dont think white can hope for more than a draw.|
|Nov-29-05|| ||EmperorAtahualpa: <Eric Schiller> That sounds like it could make a major improvement to the quality of this website. A very interesting project! Thank you for your explanation.|
|Nov-29-05|| ||OhioChessFan: < I had 8 pawns on the 7th once, then I had to play 1. e4. =) >
<Wannabe>, I've never seen an illegal move made on a player's first move.|
|Nov-29-05|| ||Kaspy2: excellent pun! acropolyptically cool|
|Nov-29-05|| ||Ger7ry: JoeWms asked about the 7 in Ger7ry. I tried to register here as Gerry but someone already had that name so I modified it. |
The 7 is silent.
And, just so there's some chess content to this kibitz, when weary willy writes, "can anyone point to another game with 3 connected passed pawns on the seventh rank?" I'd like to point out that the word "passed" is redundant here, as once a pawn gets to the 7th it's guaranteed to be passed.
|Nov-30-05|| ||kevin86: <Ger7ry>A few things:I never heard of a number having a sound-the seven is silent-.lol.Second,with the algebraic notation:"the seventh rank" is ALWAYS supposed to mean white's seventh and black's second under the old system. The algebraic system is very elegant for some things-but not for others. Eg,When attacks are made on the pawn diagonal to the king it used to be called KB2-now it is called f2/f7|
|Nov-30-05|| ||Eric Schiller: <kevin86> Sorry, Kev, but you are wrong on this. Although the square names are absolute, 7th rank and 8th rank are still used generically (rather like the polically-slightly-incorrect "he" stands for either gender, when used generically). Talking about the seventh rank from Black's point of view, you can say Black's second rank is weak.|
Specific squares dont work that way, so f7/f2 often has to be written that way, though when I teach I just use "our favorite target square" to cover both.
I did a formal grammatical analysis of chess notation back in 1985, and it was eventually published in vol. 5 of the University of Chicago Working Papers in Linguistics.
It is interesting to observe the interaction of chess notation and sentence structure in languages that don't have the verb in the middle. Soemtimes German notation places the capture symbol (:) at the end of the move, where the verb would be.
|Feb-10-06|| ||McCool: What an odd game.
|Apr-06-06|| ||gauer: chessgames.com: I don't know whether the Caxton Collection of named openings has each of the names of variations found in the Oxford Companion (Hooper and Whyld), but that is also a nice index. I've noticed a larger % ratio of unorthodox to orthodox variations in the Caxton database, and my preference is to concentrate on the many more main lines in the Companion which have better held up against the test of time. I hope that it might also work its way in.|
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