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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Sep-11-08 | | openingspecialist: That is a possible position and what i may have reached as black:
25. Nf6+ Rxf6 26. gxf6 Bg6 27. fxg7 Re8 28. Qh6 Be7 28. Be1 Bf6 29. Bh4 Bxg7 30. Qg5 Qxg5 31. Bxg5. Perhaps Rxf6 is a better option for black? im not saying its drawing, but im saying you have better drawing chances than with a blunder like gxf6 ripping open your g-file for no apparent reason. |
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Sep-11-08
 | | HelaNubo: <openingspecialist: That is a possible position and what i may have reached as black: 25. Nf6+ Rxf6 26. gxf6 Bg6 27. fxg7 Re8 28. Qh6 Be7 28. Be1 Bf6 29. Bh4 Bxg7 30. Qg5 Qxg5 31. Bxg5.>
This is interesting, but after 26... Bg6:
click for larger view
Fritz immediately gives the nice line:
27. Rxg6! (instead of 27. fxg7), Qxg6 28. Rg3 with an easy win. |
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Sep-11-08
| | Woody Wood Pusher: < openingspecialist: That is a possible position and what i may have reached as black: 25. Nf6+ Rxf6 26. gxf6 Bg6 27. fxg7 Re8 28. Qh6 Be7 28. Be1 Bf6 29. Bh4 Bxg7 30. Qg5 Qxg5 31. Bxg5. Perhaps Rxf6 is a better option for black?> No, white can improve on your line and you will never reach that position as black. 25.Nf6+, Rxf6 26. gxf6, Bg6 27.Rxg6, Qxg6 (27...hxg6 28. Qh8 + mate in 4) 28. Rg3, Rf8 (28...Qe8 29. Rxg7 mate in 4) 29. fxg7, Kxg7 30 Rxg6+ + - |
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| Sep-11-08 | | TheCap: 25. Nh6 gxh6
26. gxh6 Kh8
27. Rg5 Qf7
28. Rhg3 and mate in 6 |
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| Sep-11-08 | | eblunt: As per <The Bycote:> after 26 ....  h8 27.  h6 is the killer move, preparing  g7 and forcing black to exchange for on h3 and then swapping the other rook. After that the white comes to e6 and rips the guts out blacks entire centre pawn mass, game over. |
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Sep-11-08
| | Woody Wood Pusher: < TheCap: 25. Nh6 gxh6
26. gxh6 Kh8
27. Rg5 Qf7
28. Rhg3 and mate in 6>
LOL
I'm afraid that just loses you the knight for no decisive attack. 27...Qf6 28. Rg3, Be7 and you have nothing - + |
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Sep-11-08
| | DarthStapler: Got it |
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| Sep-11-08 | | goodevans: "My solution" (which I got in seconds) was 25 Nf6+ gxf6; 26 g6. Can anyone confirm that this is a win or point out to me what I'm missing? Thanks. |
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| Sep-11-08 | | goodevans: I guess I can answer my own question ...
I thought that 26 ... h5 could be answered with 27 Rg5, but then 27 ... Qxh3 seems to lead to a draw. |
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| Sep-11-08 | | openingspecialist: <Woody wood pusher> of course! i never thought to sack the exchange back so quickly. I was thinking about it in the "drawish" position i showed. |
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| Sep-11-08 | | YetAnotherAmateur: The variation that caused me to reject the move played in the game:
25. Nf6 Rxf6
26. gxf6 Bg6
and now while white has a material advantage I saw no way for white to exploit that advantage. |
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Sep-11-08
 | | chrisowen: For nearly a century white has handled the colle with nice timing. 20. e5 would've carved out a headache but 25..Nf6! soothes my sore temples. Here it is handi coordination of three pieces that stuff black. |
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| Sep-11-08 | | TheCap: < Woody Wood Pusher: < TheCap: 25. Nh6 gxh6
26. gxh6 Kh8
27. Rg5 Qf7
28. Rhg3 and mate in 6>
LOL
I'm afraid that just loses you the knight for no decisive attack. 27...Qf6 28. Rg3, Be7 and you have nothing - + > Well, at least my humor worked...
Have a nice day & greetings from Down Under
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Sep-11-08
 | | OhioChessFan: Fairly easy for a Thursday. I was like Cap and wanted to play Nh6 first. That just looked more like a puzzle move. |
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Sep-11-08
 | | Once: <MostlyAverageJoe: <Once: 25. Nh6 gh 26. gh+ Kh8 looks tempting, but then what do we do?> How about 27. Qh6 to keep the vulnerable h7 pawn in place, with the idea of bringing the rook to g7. Looks rather deadly.> This is the position at the end of the line I suggested ... 
click for larger viewSo now you want to play 27. Qh6, eh?
That's okay - black has a perpetual with 27 ... Qxe4+(!?@) 28. Rg2 Qg1+ Only joking! |
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Sep-11-08
 | | whiteshark: After <25.Nf6 Kf7> (best answer) <26.Nxh7 Qg6 27.Nxf8 Bxf8> white is  vs  up but the position is so blocked the material doesn't mean that much. [Remember Rook require open files to develop their power!] A longterm win.
click for larger view |
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Sep-11-08
| | Once: .... except that's not a perpetual, is it? White plays 29. Kxh2 and black's checks run out. |
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Sep-11-08
 | | MostlyAverageJoe: <Once: <MostlyAverageJoe: <Once: 25. Nh6 gh 26. gh+ Kh8 looks tempting, but then what do we do?> How about 27. Qh6 to keep the vulnerable h7 pawn in place, with the idea of bringing the rook to g7. Looks rather deadly.>
This is the position at the end of the line I suggested> OOPS.
Attacking with Nh6 did not cross my mind when I looked at the puzzle so I guess I translated h->f in your post. Your line can be improved, though. White can play Kxh2 immediately after Qxe4+, no need to wait extra move and move the rook for no good reason :-) |
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Sep-11-08
 | | YouRang: Phfft. I thought I found something good in 25.Nh6+. It turned out to be just a mirage. |
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Sep-11-08
 | | kevin86: After 26...h8 27 g6 xh3 ( ,to escape mate) 28 xh3 xf6...White would be ahead a queen and pawn for rook and bishop...if black lasts the middlegame,a draw is possible but not likely. |
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| Sep-11-08 | | VooDooMoves: Hey all. What a fascinating position! At first I thought white could win at leisure with whatever move but upon closer inspection I found it's not easy at all! I found 3 candidates: 22. Nh6+, Nf6+, and g6. Even though I didn't find the answer in the time i allowed myself I will post my analysis in the hopes that it will help, although I doubt it as I didn't use the silicon monster :) 1) 22. Nh6+ gxh6 (necessary as white was forking king & queen) 23. gxh6+ Kh8 (23...Kf7? 24. Rg7#) and now that the h-file (white's biggest asset) has been closed I see no way of continuing the attack. 2) 22.Nf6+ (this move has the same point of opening the g-file but the reply is not forced so black has other ways to handle it) 2a)22...gxf6 23.gxf6+ Kh8 24.Rg5! and white takes away the only 3 squares from which the queen can guard h7. So, 24...Bg6 (best as others allow mate) 25. Rxf5 and white wins queen for 2 pieces. 2b) 22...Rxf6 23. gxf6 Bg6 (23...Qxf6? 24. Qxf6! wins the queen as the g-pawn is pinned and 23...g6? 24. Qxh7+ Kf8 25. Qg7#) and black holds. 2c) 22...Kh8 23. Nxh7 Bg6 24. Nf6+ Bh7 25. Qxh7+ Qxh7 26. Rxh7# Since both knight checks let black escape with accurate defense I moved to my last candidate... 3) 22. g6 This pawn advance produced some exciting analysis: 3a) 22...hxg6 23. Qh7+ Kf7 24. Nh6+ and black loses the queen to this fork as the g-pawn is pinned. 3b) 22...Qxg6 23. Nh6+ and again the queen is lost. The knight check discovers an attack on the queen and if 23...Qxh6 24. Qxh6 again wins as the g-pawn is pinned, this time the other way! 3c) 22...h6 23. Nxh6+ gxh6 24. Qxh6 Rf6 (both 24...Bg6 or 24...Qg6 allow Qh7 Mate!!) 25. Qh7+ Kf8 (the point of blacks 24th) 26. Qh8+ Ke7 27. Rh7+ Kd8 and black wiggles out of danger. So, I didnt find the solution, however I did have fun trying!! |
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| Sep-11-08 | | VooDooMoves: oops! start all my analysis with 25 instead of 22 plz :) |
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Sep-11-08
 | | lost in space: A puzzle without participation of <dzechiel> is not really complete.... |
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Sep-11-08
 | | dzechiel: White to move (25?). Material even. "Medium."
Sorry to get a late start, but my family took me into Los Angeles last night to see a play, and we didn't get home until very late. Looking at today's position, it seems obvious that white needs to open the g-file in order to get the attack up to speed. The first thought is 25 Nh6+ as this is very forcing, however after 25...gxh6 26 gxh6+ Bg6 it appears that white has now self blocked the h-file and the attack will run out of steam. So, it seems that the right way to sac the knight is
25 Nf6+
Now black has five legal replies (some better than others): - 25...Kh8
- 25...Qxf6
- 25...Rxf6
- 25...Kf7
- 25...gxf6
Let's deal with them. The worst of the bunch is
25...Kh8 26 Qxh7+ Qxh7 27 Rxh7#
Only somewhat better is
25...Qxf6 26 gxf6
and black is down a queen with a lousy position. Then there's 25...Rxf6 26 gxf6
and black is down an exchange and still has a lousy position. 25...Kf7
OK, this is a much better try. It looks like the black king will make a run for it, how can white take advantage? 26 g6+
White gets in a little zwischenzug before moving the knight to h7. Black can move the king or take with the h-pawn, but g5 is now available for the white rook. Let's try 26...hxg6 27 Nh7
On the black rook.
27...Rh8 28 Rg5
and black will go down a queen for a rook. OK, lastly there's the move that makes it all interesting 25...gxf6 26 gxf6+
Once again black has several legal moves:
26...Qg6 or 26...Bg6 allow 27 Qxh7#
26...Kf7 27 Rg7#
26...Qg5 or 26...Qg4 allow the rook capture with check. Ugh. 26...Kh8 27 Qh6
This was the hard move to find IMHO. The threat is 28 Qg7#. The only good way to stop this is 27...Rf7 28 Rg7
Now the threat is 29 Qxh7+ Qxh7 20 Rxh7#. I think at this point that black has to give up the queen with 28...Qxh3 29 Qxh3 Rxg7 30 hxg7+ Kxg7 31 Qxe6
on the bishop and the d-pawn. I think the advanced black pawns will fall like ripe apples and white will win in the endgame. At any rate, it's well beyond time to check. |
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| Sep-11-08 | | marekg248: dzechiel i'm glad you made it, love to read your posts. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
sac: 25.Nf6+