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Alexander Grischuk vs Andrei Istratescu
FIDE World Cup (2005)  ·  Sicilian Defense: Kan. Polugaevsky Variation (B42)  ·  1-0
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find similar games 2 more Grischuk/A Istratescu games
sac: 17.Qxg4 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
Dec-04-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  OneArmedScissor: Can we say "owned"?
Dec-08-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Hmmmmmmm. I'm trying to work this out. 26 Bg5?
Dec-08-05  Saruman: 26.Bg7 is perhaps even better, threatening: 27.Bxf6+ Kxf6 28.Qg5+ Kg7 29.Qe7+ Kh6 30.Nf5+! mating.
Dec-08-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: <OhioChessFan> Look at 26. Nf5+! for a while.
Dec-08-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  Boomie: How about 26. Qf4 Rhg8 27. Rf1 and white breaks through?
Dec-08-05  Saruman: <tpstar> yes, 26.Nf5+(!) was one of my candidates and should win as well.
Dec-08-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Perhaps it will intrest others to see how a patzer thinks. I considered Nf5+ and thought it would continue gxf5. Qg7+ Kxe6 and the attack ran out of steam while the mate threat at c2 remained. Maybe I'll work it out on a board instead of in my mind. Bg7 also looked okay while letting the Knight keep his eye on c2.
Dec-08-05  Assassinater: <Perhaps it will intrest others to see how a patzer thinks. I considered Nf5+ and thought it would continue gxf5. Qg7+ Kxe6 and the attack ran out of steam while the mate threat at c2 remained. Maybe I'll work it out on a board instead of in my mind. Bg7 also looked okay while letting the Knight keep his eye on c2.>

I think that 26. Nf5+ gxf5 (Kd8 27. Rxd6+) 27. Qg7+ Kxe6 28. exf5+ Kxf5 29. Rf1+ and the king gets hunted down.

Dec-08-05  Saruman: SigmaChess indicates 26.Qf4 as +5.14 depth 8, so thats probably the best move.
Dec-08-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Ok. 26 Nf5+
26.....Kd8 Rxd6+ and wins.
26.....Ke8 Nxd6+ and wins.
26....gxf5 27 Qg7+ Kxe6 28 exf5+ opens the e file for the Rook and wins. Too many variations after that for me, but I'm sure a Grishuk would see them all in 5 seconds.
Dec-08-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: <OhioChessFan> OK, you're on the right track, and that's how you learn to analyze positions = be systematic.

1) 26 ... Kd8 27. Rxd6+ Ke8 - what next?

2) 26 ... Kd8 27. Rxd6+ Kc7 - what next?

3) 26 ... Kxe6 - what next?

4) Is there a refutation to 26. Nf5+ here?

<Saruman> Computers are no fun. That's why they're so good. =)

Dec-08-05  aw1988: <tpstar> coughtalcoughTALcoughmikhailnekhemevichtalcough
Dec-08-05  Saruman: <tpstar> in the lines that followed after exf5+ Kxf5 Sigma didnt see a clear win at all.
Dec-08-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: <Saruman> Thank you, so the best move is 26. Qf4 with the crushing threats of 27. Bg7 plus 27. Nf5+! gxf5 28. Qxd6+ Ke8 29. Qd7+ wins. But I'm still interested in what our human friends discover. Computers should *verify* our analysis, not the other way around, otherwise we'll never learn how to do it.

<aw1988> Next time, please turn your head before you cough.

Dec-08-05  PinkPanther: This is just a pathetic effort by black. Fritz has black with almost a lost position by move 7.
Dec-08-05  Assassinater: 1) 26 ... Kd8 27. Rxd6+ Ke8 - what next? 28. Ng7+ Kf8 (Ke7 29. Rd7+ Kf8 30. Nh4+ and mate to follow) 29. e7+ Kxe7 30. Qe6+ and mate follows.

2) 26 ... Kd8 27. Rxd6+ Kc7 - what next? 28. Rd7+ and the king is driven to the dark-squares, where the bishop can deliver the coup de grace.

3) 26 ... Kxe6 - what next? 27. Ng7+, followed by 28. Qe6+ and it's lightsout.

Dec-08-05  Assassinater: <<tpstar> in the lines that followed after exf5+ Kxf5 Sigma didnt see a clear win at all.> The dark-squared bishop, the deeply penetrated queen and the white rook should settle matters fairly quickly. Does it really need a 10 move line to prove that it wins?

On a side note, Fritz 9 prefers white with + 13 and rising at the end position after Qf4. However, even the top ten moves give a substantial (+ 4 or more) edge to white.

Dec-09-05  Saruman: At depth 10 however the evaluation is +3.3: 1.Rf1+ Ke6 2.Rxf6+ Kd5 3.Qb7+ Qc6 4.Rf5+ Kc4 5.Rf4+ Kd5 6.Qf7+ Kc5 7.Rc4+ and white wins easily.

So the intuition was right...

Dec-09-05  DP12: Black probably is lost on move 11 when he chose Ne5 instead of the stronger Nh5. Rd4! is a fantastic move, and I think any of you who have the requisite software or (mental power god forbid) would enjoy the variations after B:d4 N:d4 Nc4 B:c4!?(Bg5!?) b:c4 e5! which remained behind the scenes.
Dec-09-05  euripides: After 6 Nb3 Black can choose between Be7 and Ba7. Ba7 often leads to the exchange of the black-square bishops,whereas Be7 leds to difficulties with the threat Bh6 which Rublevsky anticipated with h5 in Yang Shen vs Rublevsky, 2005 - where he lost, but not because of the opening. Here Grischuk keeps the black-squared bishops on and shows that the same problems with Bh6 arise when the bishop is on a7.

If <DP12>'s suggestion that 11..Ne5 loses is right, it shows how sharp these lines are. It might also be possible to play Ne5 before Nf6 so that if Bh6 Black can play Ng4 immediately.

Why not 17...e5 ?

Dec-09-05  euripides: ... I see Chessbase give the line <17...e5 18.f5 exd4 19.Nd5 Bb7 20.fxg6 hxg6 21.Bg7 Rg8 22.Nf6+ Ke7 23.Nxg8+>. Black's options do look pretty bleak after 19 Nd5.
Dec-09-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Hmm, I was hoping it would be something like "Mate in 2". I will try to work on this, but don't have the time/inclination right now.
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