< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 5 ·
|Nov-11-08|| ||Bootvis: Actually Nxh3 is winning to:
2 g4 Qh4
3 Qxf7 Rxf7
4 Be1 Nxf2+
5 Kg1 Qh1+
6 Bxh1 Nxh3++
|Nov-11-08|| ||green jelly: I saw 19...Ng4+ too, is that what Lasker played like 5 years before becoming world champion?|
|Nov-11-08|| ||JG27Pyth: This really doesn't look like Lasker...
There's got to be some story that explains this game...some tale lost to history...
"The day Lasker had to borrow shoes three sizes too small..."
"Emmanuel Lasker and the fish sandwich that looked ok..."
Well, Lasker's still my hero, but I could have done without seeing this game!
|Nov-11-08|| ||martin moller: <dzechiel> I also found Ng4+ :-)|
|Nov-11-08|| ||Kwesi: Hmmm... I looked at Qxh3+ first, saw that it worked and then stopped looking.|
|Nov-11-08|| ||BishopofBlunder: Kinda makes you want to avoid the Mieses Variation with white, doesn't it?|
|Nov-11-08|| ||johnlspouge: < <JG27Pyth> wrote: [snip] Lasker's still my hero>|
All heroes are quite human. Above all, that's why they are heroes.
Lasker made substantial contributions to the mathematics of group theory. On the way (or vice versa), he managed to be world chess champion. However you rate anyone, Lasker was simply amazing.
I cannot argue with your assessment, <JG27Pyth>. I just stand breathless at what Lasker accomplished.
|Nov-11-08|| ||goldfarbdj: I actually didn't even notice the Ng4+ line; it being a Monday or Tuesday, I looked for the queen sac first. I saw 19. ... Qxh3+ 20. Bxh3 Ng4++ 21. Kh1 Rh2 mate and clicked for the solution. I didn't even consider 20. Kg1 (although I'm pretty confident I'd have seen the second, unrefusable queen offer if I'd looked a little longer).|
|Nov-11-08|| ||DoubleCheck: |
Consider the position after whites 12th move in this game
Lasker vs Popiel
with the other game in 1889
Lasker vs Lipke
Both games are
<Vienna Game: Mieses Variation (C26)>
The variation was 3... Bc5 in the Lipke game, but also, its important to note that Lasker castled early 6. 0-0 rather than later (12. 0-0 in this game) giving him the opportunity to develop pieces rather than creating permanent weakeness
e.g. 6. h3?
In this game you see that black has a clear development advance;
Both knights in centre files
Queen prepared to move to F-G-H files
D/S Bishop attacking white king via A7-G1 diagonal
and center majority.
Compared with White
Centre Knight en prise
Queen and D/S Bishop undeveloped
Weakness at h3 square
L/S bishop has only defensive duties at g2
So clearly lasker playing 6. 0-0 gives him more chances of counteraplay than waiting and giving his opponent the opportunity to continue development
For the puzzle i went for;
20. Kh1 Qxh3+
21. Bxh3 Rh2+ mate
|Nov-11-08|| ||MaxxLange: <It's queen sac week here at Chessgames.com>|
No, it's bishop + knight mate week
|Nov-11-08|| ||gambitfan: pretty obvious puzzle !
I saw immediately the Queen's sacrifice and assumed that it was accepted...
I neglected a little bit the decline of the sacrifice...
|Nov-11-08|| ||gtgloner: OK, how about 19. ... Qxh3+ 20. Bxh3 Ng4++ 21. Kh1 Rh2#|
|Nov-11-08|| ||chrisowen: Poor E Lasker is asleep, 19.Qxh3+ and Popiel checkmates.
I find it all the more comforting that I saw 19.Ng4+.|
|Nov-11-08|| ||Antonius Blok: <Terry McCracken: Mate in 3 >|
<19..Qxh3+! 20. Bxh3..Ng4+ (20. Kg1..Qh1+ 21. Bxh1..Nh3#) 21. Kh1..Rh2#>
I found the same mate!
This position offers many mates!
|Nov-11-08|| ||Mr. Glass: I found 19. Ng4+ Kh1 20. Qxh3+ Bxh3 21. Rd2# :)|
|Nov-11-08|| ||number 23 NBer: 19... ♕xh3+; 20 ♗xg3 ♘g4+; 21 ♔h1 ♖h2# and Lasker falls.|
|Nov-11-08|| ||zb2cr: Hi <johnlspouge>,
Thanks for the information that Lasker contributed substantially to group theory. I'll have to look that up. Of course, since I'm a physicist, my view of group theory is circumscribed by Eugene Wigner, Hermann Weyl, and Cartan.
|Nov-11-08|| ||Microbe: The first thing I saw when setting up the position on my board was the pin on the h-pawn so I instinctively tried 19. ...♘g4+. The rest (20.♔h1 ♕xh3+ 21.♗xh3 ♖h2#) sort of played itself. A pleasing little combination.|
I found the puzzle today slightly easier than yesterday's actually, as I was unfamilliar with the mating pattern in yesterday's puzzle.
|Nov-11-08|| ||agb2002: 19... Qxh3+
A) 20.Bxh3 Ng4+ 21.Kh1 Rh2 mate.
B) 20.Kg1 Qh1+ 21.Bxh1 Nh3 mate.
Sorry for one of my heroes!
|Nov-11-08|| ||patzer2: Lasker's blunder in this 1889 game was 18. Qxc7?? Such mistakes were a rare anomaly in Lasker's play, as evidenced by his victory over Wilhelm Steinitz for the World Championship in 1894.|
|Nov-11-08|| ||Mulyahnto: 19. ... Ng4+ wins just as fast.|
|Nov-11-08|| ||Steven87: Ng4+ was the move I'd seen|
|Nov-11-08|| ||Mulyahnto: I think 17. Qxb7? is the real blunder. b7 is obviously a poisoned pawn. After 17. ... Rb8, 18. Qa6 or 18. Qc6 does not improve much over Qxc7. As 19. ... Rxb2 will invariably lose at least the exchange after 20. Rd1 (regardless whether the queen is on c6, c7 or a6). As the puzzle shows 20. Bc3 loses immediately. I looks like that any bishop move on move 20 loses for white.|
|Nov-11-08|| ||Mulyahnto: 19. ... Ng4+ is also more forcing than the text move. White has no choice but to play 20. Kh1. After 20. ... Qxh3+, white again has no choice but to play 21. Bxh3 allowing 21. ... Rh2#. But regardless, it's a forced mate.|
|Nov-11-08|| ||YetAnotherAmateur: I ended up with the much slower response to white declining the sac:|
19. ... Qxh3
20. Kg1 Ng4+
white now has 3 options:
21. Bxc5 Qh2#
21. Bd4 Bxd4+
and then just continue with the Rf2 line.
21. Rf2 Qh2+
22. Kf1 Rxf2+
23. Ke1 Qg1+
24. Bf1 Qxf1#
Obviously there are much more elegant lines, but it's fascinating how black has a hard time losing from this position.
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