|Dec-27-05|| ||Honza Cervenka: 3...Bg4 is dubious move well-known from famous game Morphy vs Duke Karl / Count Isouard, 1858 and Lasker's gambit continuation 4...Nd7!? hardly can change this assesment, although it is probably better move than 4...Bxf3 played by Duke Karl von Braunschweig and his ally against Morphy. Lasker's Rook manoeuvre was a bad idea from the beginning (12.Nf1!? Rg6 13.f4 was possible too.) and 13...Rxg2 and 14...Rxh2 were very weak moves. Van Vliet's execution of young Lasker was very energetic and merciless.|
|Dec-27-05|| ||aw1988: <Honza> Black appears to get a fairly normal position.|
|Dec-27-05|| ||Honza Cervenka: <Black appears to get a fairly normal position.> Yes, but without a Pawn. If white consolidates his position, he should be clearly better or even won.|
|Dec-27-05|| ||Sneaky: Spoken like a true correspondence player. "Might work in blitz chess" doesn't cut the mustard.|
|Dec-27-05|| ||aw1988: He seems to have some development in return.|
|Dec-27-05|| ||Honza Cervenka: <He seems to have some development in return.> That's right but it is a temporary advantage and if black is not able to transform it in long-term initiative and some eternal positional plus or regain of material, then he has a serious problem. White's plus Pawn e4 also controls important points in the centre which is fine for defence. I like white's side more than black's in this opening, although I agree that 4...Nd7!? is quite interesting idea and can be successful in OTB game, especially against unprepared opponent.|
|Dec-27-05|| ||aw1988: It's certainly better than the dreadful Bxf3.|
|Dec-27-05|| ||Honza Cervenka: <It's certainly better than the dreadful Bxf3.> I agree.|
|Dec-27-05|| ||syracrophy: I'm ok with Honza Cervenka, 3...Bg4? it's a bad move, it's a little opening tricky trap. 3...Bg4? was played too in the famous game Morphy-Duke Braunsweig/Count Isouard, Paris 1858, after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Bg4? 4.dxe5 Bxf3 5.Qxf3 dxe5 6.Bc4! Nf6 7.Qb3! and white has already, an attack and a better developing position.|
In conclusion, 3...Bg4? its a bad and dubious move that only leads to complications, unfavorable to black
|Jul-04-09|| ||sneaky pete: Position after 14.Bf1? ..
click for larger view
What to do?
|Oct-06-09|| ||keypusher: <sneaky pete> 14....Ng4 looks promising. :-)|
|Oct-08-09|| ||kingfu: Anybody a Frank Zappa fan out there? Captain Beefheart's real name in Van Vliet.|
|Oct-08-09|| ||Jim Bartle: Right, Don van Vliet. I met him a couple of times in LA through an artist friend of mine (he's a painter as well as a musician). Very normal and friendly, not off the deep end. He has a phenomenal memory (he'd talked for five minutes with a friend of mine ten five years earlier and remembered every detail) and the seeming ability to foretell some future events.|
|Oct-09-09|| ||kingfu: Zappa and the band on one of the original Austin City Limits doing Muffin Man:|
"Girl , you thought he was a man but he was a muffin. Those cries you heard in the night is a result of him stuffing."
Then, Frank rips off one great guitar solo, then, finishes by introducing the band including:
"Captain Beefheart on vocals and madness."
Then Frank says, " Good night Austin wherever you are."
|Oct-09-09|| ||kingfu: Bartle, I am jealous. I lived in LA all through the 60s and 70s and never got to meet those guys. I think the best place to experience music back then was The Shrine. There are two Shrines: The Shrine Auditorium which was very nice and hosted several Academy Awards Shows and The Shrine Exposition Hall which was flat and open to do COW shows. I saw a Zappa show in the Auditorium with Ruben and The Jets which was great. Many times Frank would play The Exposition Hall where they could set up three stages all at once. One of the best shows there was Zappa on stage one, Captain Beefheart on stage two and Larry "Wild Man" Fisher on stage three.|
|Oct-09-09|| ||Jim Bartle: What about the El Monte Legion Stadium he sings about? Where he picks up on his weezy (she's so fine)?|
|Oct-11-09|| ||kingfu: Ahhh, the 605 Freeway. It runs through El Monte , Whittier, Santa Fe Springs, Bellflower and other assorted snot holes. There is one song that the liner notes said was played on the back of a flat bed truck! I love LA from the 60s and 70s!!!!|
|Oct-11-09|| ||Jimfromprovidence: <kingfu> <Jim Bartle> I saw Captain Beefhart live around 1971 in my hometown of Providence. The opening act was a bunch of trained chimpanzees.|
That was around the time Zappa's "signature" film, 200 Motels, was released.
|Oct-16-11|| ||JoergWalter: In this database this game is the earliest appearance of the Alapin-Blackburne gambit. If true would not be Lasker gambit be more appropriate?|
|Mar-19-12|| ||Phony Benoni: Considering the outcome, I doubt Lasker would have wanted the gambit named in his honor.|
When this round 4 game was played, Lasker had scored 3-0 and was a point ahead of the field. Did he expect to beat van Vliet easily as well, and risk a dubious opening to do so? Or was it just another case of the young Lasker occasionally going bonkers? (For instance, there is the absolutely horrible H Caro vs Lasker, 1890.)
Ironic how Lasker tried to improve on an old Morphy game, while van Vliet won in Morphyesque style by castling on his last move.
|Mar-19-12|| ||ughaibu: And if Lasker had played 14...Ng4?|
|Mar-20-12|| ||Phony Benoni: <ughaibu: And if Lasker had played 14...Ng4?>|
click for larger view
Hmm. I see <keypusher> also mentioned this earlier, but he didn't go any further with it. Definitely looks like it could use some investigating.
I fed it to my Bozo 0.5 machine (a late 1990s version of Crafty), and it gave this line: <15.Bxg2 Qh4+ 16.Ke2 Qf2+ 17.Kd3 Nc5+! 18.Nxc5 0-0-0+ 19.Kc2 Ne3+ 20.Kb1 Nxd1 21.Rxd1 Qxg2>
click for larger view
White still has a formal material advantage, but is both tied up and tied down. Can't get much worse than that. Bozo was awarding White +4s at the start of this mess, but the evaluation kept dropping all the way through.
The whole idea is definitely worth some real analysis.
|Mar-20-12|| ||Penguincw: Once that knight leaves d5 (or more importantly, guarding e7), it's mate very quickly.|
|Mar-24-13|| ||ughaibu: So, nobody want to do the real analysis?|