< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
|Oct-11-18|| ||Fish55: The queen sac is obvious, since Nxf1 and Nxe3 threatens mate and black's Rd1+ cannot be stopped.|
|Oct-11-18|| ||nalinw: Yes but it is a Thursday problem because of Black's defensive effort and seeing past that .... I didn't see either ...|
|Oct-11-18|| ||Mayankk: Yeah, the mating threats make the Queen sac obvious. However White did have various defensive options and to give up some material and try to hang on.|
The key things to notice, in my opinion, were that both Black Rooks were on open files and the key g2 escape square was guarded twice, making any defensive try after 33... Nxe3 that much harder.
|Oct-11-18|| ||al wazir: 35. Kg1 Rb1+ 36. Kf2 Ng4+ 0:1.|
|Oct-11-18|| ||areknames: So what if 34.Kg1?|
|Oct-11-18|| ||Walter Glattke: 32.-Nxf4 33.fxg5 Ne3 is clear, but..34.Kg1 Rd1+ 35.Kf2 Ng4+ 36.Ke2 Rbd8 A) 37.Qxd8!? Rxd8 38.Re4 Nxh2 39.Rh4! B) 37.Rxg6+ Kxg6 38.Qc6+ R8d6 39.Qe4+ Kxg5 40.Qf4+ Kh5 41.Qf5+ Kh6 42.Qxg4 what is "medium" here?|
|Oct-11-18|| ||Odradek: 34 Kg1 Rb2
35 Qe5+ Kh7
36 Qxe3 Rd1+
37 Qe1 Rb1
38 Kf1 +-
36... fxe6 seems best for B with 2 R for Q, but victory is still hard, in my view.
|Oct-11-18|| ||dTal: Odradek, in your line after 38. Kf1 Black has 38. ... fx36 which is winning. You move 34. ... Rb2 is the key move in the 34. Kg1 line which I hadn't spotted, without which B is lost I think.|
|Oct-11-18|| ||areknames: <Odradek> After 34.Kg1 Rb2 can't White simply play 35.Qxd8?|
|Oct-11-18|| ||Walter Glattke: In my line one can play 36.-R8b1 37.Re7 Re1+ 38.Kd2 Red1+ 39.Kc1 Rdc1+ 40.Kd2 draw or 39.-Rbc1+ 40.Kb3 white wins.|
|Oct-11-18|| ||nalinw: 34. Kg1 opens a whole can of worms - in some lines even the pawn on h3 becomes critical .... may be a little tough for a Thursday|
|Oct-11-18|| ||stacase: I didn't see 34.Qe5+ but it didn't matter, Black's two Rooks had the power to complete the back rank mate. You just had to have the good sense to double them up with 36...Rbb1 pinning White's Queen instead of taking her (Patzer sees check says check) and winding up with Rook against a Rook and two extra Pawns|
|Oct-11-18|| ||Skandrino: I think after 34. Kg1 (the critical line), Rb2 does not work after 35. Qxd8 Rg2+ 36. Kh1 Ng4 (or Rf2) 37. Rf6! In my analysis, 34.Kg1 Ng4! and then:
35.Kf1 Nxh2+ 36.Ke2 Rb2+ 37. Ke1 Nf3+ (or Ke3/Kf2 Nh4+), followed by ...h2 and promotion.
Or 35. Re1 Rd2 36. Qf4 (36.Qxb8 Rg2+ 37. Kh1 Nf2# (or Kf1 Nxh2#)) Rbb2 0-1|
|Oct-11-18|| ||Skandrino: And so cutting off the king's escape with Ng4 first avoids all the messy lines after 34...Rd1+|
|Oct-11-18|| ||Walter Glattke: 34.Kg1 Rb2 of Odradek A) 35.Qxd8 Rg2+ 36.Kh1 Ng4 39.Rxg6+ Kxg6 40.Qg8+ Kh5 41.Qxf7+ Kxg5 42.Qf4+ wins A2) 36.-Rf2 37.Qf6+ Rxf6 38.Rxf6 wins, B) 35.Qe5+ Kh7 36.Qxe4? Odradek: Rd1+ Qe1 Rbb1 Kf1 fxe6) B2) 36.Rd6 Ng4 black wins.
C)35.Rxg6+ Kxg6 36.Qxd8 Rg2+ 37.Kh1 Rf2
38.Qd6+ and QxN (Kxg5 Qe7+/Kg7 Qd5+)White wins. 38.-Kxg5 39.Qe7+ Kg4 40.Qxe3 Rf1+ 41.Qg1 Rxg1+ 42.Kxg1 Kf3 43.a4 or Kf5 Kf2 etc.
|Oct-11-18|| ||thegoodanarchist: Behold the power of the wedge pawn!!|
|Oct-11-18|| ||wtpy: 34 Kg1 was problem line for me as well. For a couple of minutes tried to work out mating net with 34.. Ng4 but 35Re1 puts the kabosh on that. So back to 34..Rb1+ 35 Kf2 Ng4+ 36 Ke2 Rb2+ 37 Ke3 Nh2+ and am getting to the limits to my brain's RAM here but figured with h pawn black probably has enough to win.|
|Oct-11-18|| ||Walter Glattke: Skandrino plays 34.Kg1 Ng4; I found then 35.Rf6 Rb1+ 36.Rf1 and black is one move too late: 36.-R8d1 37.Qxf7+ Kh8 38.Qf3, and 35.Rxg6+ has many difficult or even insane continuations, that is not "medium" here.|
|Oct-11-18|| ||TheaN: Thursday 11 October 2018
I had a vision error here. I'm safe to assume most came up with <32....Nxf1 33.gxf4 Nxe3>, and probably continued <34.Kg1>. My first error of vision was the fact that White can play 34.Qe5+!? even though after 34....Kh7 the Knight's immune on account of the game's continuation.
After <34.Kg1!?> however Black has to be really accurate to convert. I had the incorrect vision to threaten mate with <34....Rd2?<>> with all White's non-forcing replies to fail due to mate on g2. Except, it's no mate on g2 :>. After <35.Qxb8 Rg2+ 36.Kh1 Nd1 37.Rxg6+! +-<>> White's on his way to destroy Black's defenses and win Nd1.
However, after <34....Rb1+ 35.Kf2 Ng4+ 36.Ke2 (Kf3 Nxh2+! -+ is also what I missed) Rb2+ 37.Ke1 (Kf1? Rd1+ 38.Re1 Nxh2+ 39.Kg1 Rxe1#; Kf3 Nxh2+ -+) Rdd2!! -+> holy $@(# that last move. Balls of steel if you'd envision that OTB. Obvious White didn't play the best defense but I'm sure Plachetka had it covered.
|Oct-11-18|| ||TheaN: Interesting in this combination is that when Black is down Q v RN, the winning combination is not that easy to spot. It's obvious Black has enough compensation for the Queen but should be wary of sacrifices of White that can level the material imbalance and even trade off all pieces. In the end, Pa3 may be White's most conclusive weapon if Black screws it up.|
|Oct-11-18|| ||Walter Glattke: TheaN: 36.Kf3 Nxh2+ 37.Kf4 Rf1+ 38.Ke4 Re1+ 39.Kf4 could be draw.|
|Oct-11-18|| ||thegoodanarchist: So it turns out that 21.Kh1 was eventually exploited by Black.|
The White king needed to be closer to the back rank "luft" square at f2.
Should we call 21.Kh1 a mistake? Is it dubious?!
|Oct-11-18|| ||siggemannen: So, what's the definite line after 34.Kg1?|
|Oct-11-18|| ||cormier: |
click for larger view
Analysis by Houdini 4
<22...Nb3> 23.Bc3 Bxc3 24.dxc3 Kg7 25.Rfd1 Qf6 26.Qc7 Rhd8 27.Qf4 Qxc3 28.Kg1 Ra8 29.Qf3 Kg8 30.Qg4 Nd2 31.Rbc1 Qf6 32.Qxh3 Rxa3 33.Ng4 Qd4 34.Ne3 Qe4 35.Qg2 Nf3+ 36.Kh1 Rxd1+ 37.Rxd1 Kg7 38.h3 Qb7 39.Nf1 Qa8 40.Ne3 Qe4 41.Qf1 Ra2 42.Qg2
- / + (-0.92) Depth: 26 dpa done
|Oct-11-18|| ||Jimfromprovidence: If 33...Rb1, black threatens mate next move.
click for larger view
Does 34 Qe5+ help white? If not, how then does white win?
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