< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
|Jan-09-06|| ||psmith: A few points here, with assists by Fritz.
First, on <itz2000>'s suggestion of 15. Rf1, Black seems to get good chances after 15... Qa5+.
Second, <schnarre>'s 14. Qe2 looks like a mistake (typo?) as Black just plays 14...Nxf3+ 15. gxf3 Nxd4 winning. (Don't need a computer to see that!)
Third, <p8riot>'s 18. Nf3 loses quickly to 18...Rxf3! followed by Bg5+.
|Jan-11-06|| ||schnarre: <psmith> That was a typo. Thanks!|
|Jan-31-10|| ||RandomVisitor: 13...Rxf3, 13...g6, 13...Kh8 and even 13...Nxd4 are all good moves for black.|
|Jan-31-10|| ||Quentinc: A fitting conclusion to easy week. If I spent 30 seconds on yesterday's, this took about 2 minutes. Can't say that I anticipated 19...Rf4 (I was expecting 19. Kd1 and then Qd4+), but it certainly seemed like Black's attack would be overwhelming one way or the other after 18...Bg5+. Another fun game, too!|
|Jan-31-10|| ||Quentinc: It seems White could have put up more resistance with 20.Qc3, and if 20...Rd4+ 21.Kc2.|
|Jan-31-10|| ||dzechiel: Black to move (17...?). Black is down two knights for two pawns. "Insane."|
Black has certainly stoked his attack by throwing two knights into the fire. And, yet, white threatens to win another piece with 18 Nxd7 if black doesn't get something going quickly.
Black has several candidate moves here. I think we should list the ones that come easily.
With black two pieces down, it seems that it will be necessary to finish off the white king. While it's possible that there's a combination that gets all of the material back plus interest to allow black to win in the endgame, the exposed white king makes me think otherwise.
The move I really want to make is
I looked at this move after examining 17...Bg5+, and in most of those variations the white king is able to cross the c-file and escape to safety on b1 or a2. The rook move first keeps the white king in the center.
Of course, white has a boatload of replies here. One that must be addressed is
But I think black can now play
18...Bg5+ 19 Kd3 Rf4
Threatening 20...Rd4#. If white takes the rook with
sets up mates with 21...Qe3#, 21...Qc4#, and if the white knight leaves g3, 21...Qe4#.
I'm sure there's a lot more tries for white on move 18, but I don't want to try and look at 'em all tonight.
Time to check and see if I'm on the right track.
I got the right idea, but white had a much different defence.
|Jan-31-10|| ||Quentinc: <Dzechiel> in your line <20 Bxf4 then 20...Qxf4 sets up mates with 21...Qe3#, 21...Qc4#, and if the white knight leaves g3, 21...Qe4#.> what about 21.Qc1? Sort of similar to my musings about 18. Qc3. White is up so much material he can afford to part with his Queen if he can stave off mate. |
Maybe 18..Rf4 is better?
|Jan-31-10|| ||An Englishman: Good Evening: The key is that Black must do anything/everything in his power to prevent the White King from escaping to b1. I saw the same line <dzechiel> saw, but did not see the other main line that occurred in the game.|
|Jan-31-10|| ||SufferingBruin: Ditto <dzechiel> and <An Englishman>. With company like that, I'm considering this a win, even though the game line was different from what I expected.|
|Jan-31-10|| ||goodevans: I got the first move, <17 ... Rac8>, by a process of logic but that's as far as I got.|
I looked at all the forcing moves and with each I was unable to stop white from reaching what looked like adequate safety on the Q-side, so I settled on Rac8 as being the most active move that prevents this.
With so many variations to check after that I didn't even start. I think if I'd ever come to this position in a game I'd have just played Rac8 and hoped for the best!
<19 ... Rf4> is very clever and never even entered my thoughts, so no more than 0.2 marks for me today.
|Jan-31-10|| ||Once: <goodevans: I think if I'd ever come to this position in a game I'd have just played Rac8 and hoped for the best!>|
Well said, sir! (or madam).
Black has sacced two pieces for a wonderful attacking position, but he now needs to find a strong follow-up as his Bd7 is en prise.
The most forcing moves don't seem to work. If we try 17. Bg5+ or 17. Qd4+, the white king has a chance to run away to the queenside.
But there's a piece of chess advice that always sticks in my mind for moments like this: invite everyone to the party. The Ra8 is not doing anything for its living at the moment, so why not develop it to c8, add an extra piece to the attack and close off white's escape route?
Then is gets all murky. White has many many replies to a non-forcing move like 17...Rac8. The diligent and detail-focussed will calmly list each of them and decide that black wins in each case. The rest of us will take it on faith, seeing as we have such follow-ups as Bg5+, Be8/g6+ and Rf4/Bxf4/Bxf4/Qe3+.
In correspondence you would sit down and work out each line. In blitz, you would bang down 17...Rac8 on general principles. In classical time controls, it would depend on how much time you had left on your clock.
On CG.com, given the complexity of a normal sunday, I leave the details to those far better equipped than me. That saves me some time to work out how to weave a reference to semi naked ladies into my kibbitz...
|Jan-31-10|| ||Richard Taylor: I almost solved this except I missed the beautiful Be8!! (I thought he had to play Rxf3 or Rxc1.) Great game by Black arising from a Tarrasch.|
|Jan-31-10|| ||whiteshark: Got this one quickly, and it's Sunday! Probably pattern-recognition worked here well as I've played the French for 'decades'.|
|Jan-31-10|| ||Jane Sanders: Hi there,
I just joined this site today.
I got 17...Rac8 but expected 18.h4 to prevent 18...Bg5+.
Are the puzzles always this hard?
|Jan-31-10|| ||mrsaturdaypants: Not only can I not find the solution, I can't even find a good forcing first move. Both the obvious Bg5+ and the delightful Qe3+ allow the white king to escape. I noticed that in some of those lines the black rook came to the c file too late, so I'm inclined to try to set up a net with 17...Rc8. |
Now 18 Rf1 looks best to me for white. And now:
18...Bg5+ 19 Kd3 Bb5+ 20 Nc4 Rxc4 21 Rxf2 Rxc1 22 Kd4, and white escapes. Best I could do today. I would bail out with 17...Qf4+ and 18...Qxe5, and hope my two central pawns could hold off white's extra piece.
Time to look.
|Jan-31-10|| ||mrsaturdaypants: Hmm. Well, there's probably a refutation of my suggested 18 Rf1, but right now it's looking better to me than 18 Qb3. It seems to fatally disrupt the Queen's maneuvers and support of the f8 rook, leaving too few avenues of attack for black.|
And no, <Jane Sanders>, they increase in difficulty from Monday through Sunday. Tomorrow will be better. Welcome to the site.
|Jan-31-10|| ||scormus: Its a bit hairy. 17. ... Rac8 is the natural move then White makes it easy in the game - I guess he missed Blacks neat bishop manoever. He could have tried 18. Nxd7. Then 18. ... Bg5+ 19. Kd3 Rc4 (better than 19. ... Rf4 20. Be3! and I can't see Black's win) 20. B moves Rd4+ 21. Kc3 and game over, as they say. Please let me know if I missed something|
|Jan-31-10|| ||DarthStapler: I didn't get it|
|Jan-31-10|| ||dzechiel: <Jane Sanders: ... I just joined this site today. >|
Welcome aboard! I hope you get as much enjoyment from this site as I do!
|Jan-31-10|| ||Jimfromprovidence: I tried about 10 different defenses for white after 17...Rac8 and they all failed. |
As an example, I felt good about the text response 18 Qb3, below. (It gives the king an escape square at d1 and protects against queen checks at both f4 and d4).
click for larger view
After 18... Bg5+ I tried 19 Kd1 instead, but that loses to 19...Qd4+ 20 Nd3 Ba4 below. (20 Qd3 is no good because of 20...Qa4+ with mate to follow).
click for larger view
|Jan-31-10|| ||waustad: <jane>They get harder as the week goes on.|
|Jan-31-10|| ||cyclon: Truly beautiful puzzle in it's potential richness. From the "jungle" of variations I dragged following after blown it off from the "spider-nets". It may or may not coincide with the game-line. It also may not be correct -heaven and "chip-chap" knows. 17. -Rac8 18.Qb3 Bg5+ 19.Kd3 (Kd1 Qd4+ 20.B/N/Qd3 Ba4/+ decides, also Ke1 Rxc1+, stop.) -Rf4 (hardest move to find to me) 20.Nf3 (tough choices for White are; Bxf4 Qxf4 wins immediately-Nf1 Qe4X or Nc4 dxc4+/Be3 Rf3-stunning move/naturally Bf3+ Rd4X/also all the Queen moves seems to lose for White) -R8c4 (this move was also rather difficult to find, but because I donīt have a pc-program this line (this idea to play with the both Rooks) may be incorrect. Anyway, this is the way I see Blacks plan. From the starting point in the puzzle he was 2 pieces down and itīs evident that heīs not gonna win just like that) 21.Bd1 Rxc1 (threat is now 22. -Rxf3 mating) 22.Rxc1 Rd4+ and now either 23.Nxd4 Qd2X, or 23.Kc3 Qe3+ 24.Kc2 Qxc1X. Most certainly there are plenty of other variations with their sub-variations etc., but this is my suggestion today whether right or wrong.|
|Jan-31-10|| ||cyclon: Ok. Interesting(!). I did not even CONSIDER 20. -Be8 that really seems to be the most effective move.|
|Jan-31-10|| ||Once: <Jane Sanders> Welcome! No, the puzzles are not normally this hard. The puzzles start at very easy on Monday - usually a one or two move tactic. They than get a little harder each day until Sundays which are graded as "insane".|
This also gives us an extra topic for conversation, as in "I thought that one was much too easy for a Tuesday" or "that was tougher than the average friday".
Hope you enjoy yourself on the site.
|Jan-31-10|| ||wals: The unsafe move 16.Nxe5 (-4.98) led to white's downfall.
16.Rf1 (-0.44) would have kept white in the game.|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·