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Feb-21-08
 | | ycsidney: Qh7+ draws |
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Feb-21-08
 | | dzechiel: <ycsidney: Qh7+ draws> After 106 Qh7+ Qxh7# is the end of white. |
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Feb-21-08
| | dzechiel: dzechiel: White to move. White is down a queen for a pawn. "Medium" difficulty. Well, we must assume that white would be content with a draw here. So the question is, "How can we deliver a series of checks that keeps the black king in the corner OR allows us to give up our queen with a stalemate position. For instance:
106 Qe5+
Black must block with the queen
106...Qg7
If 106...Kg8 or 106...Kh7 then 107 Qg7+ and no matter how black captures (and the capture is forced) it's stalemate. Now
107 Qe8+
Black must play
107...Qg8
because if 107...Kh7 then 108 Qg8+ is once again a stalemate. It's time to check again on e5 with
108 Qe5+
If black blocks with the queen (108...Qg7) this repeats the position from the end of move 106 and white can continue with 109 Qe8+ and draw by the threefold position rule. So black must play 108...Kh7
at which point white plays
109 Qe4+
forking king and queen (on b1). After
109...Qxe4
it's a stalemate once again. |
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| Feb-21-08 | | itsankush: no it wont draw..coz then Qxh7# |
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| Feb-21-08 | | JohnTal: Wouldn't 106 Qe5+ !! force a perpetual check or stalemate. For example, 106 Qe5+ ... K any, 107 Qg7+ forces stalemate. Or 106 Qe5+ ... Qg7, 107 Qe8+ ... K any, 108 Qg8+! forces stalemate. Or 106 Qe5+ ...Qg7, 107 Qe8+ ...Qg8, 108 Qe5+ in this line, any K move is met with Qg7+ and any Qg7 move is met with Qe8+ - the position can be repeated 3 moves in a row forcing a draw. I think White was in time pressure - he had the right idea, but the wrong square. Seeing that this week's examples have been "Force the Draw", I see the strategy as forcing Black's g-file Q to stay on the g-file and ensure that Black covers the g-file and the h6 square = stalemate. A Q down, White has to force a draw.
Am I missing something? |
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Feb-21-08
| | dzechiel: <rustymatin: isnt it just Qe5+, black moves his king, Qg7+ and stalemate follows with any move for black if black blocks Qe5+ with Qg7, then again Qxg7 stalemate> If 106 Qe5+ Qg7 107 Qxg7+ Kxg7 is not stalemate. |
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| Feb-21-08 | | Vanish Doom: 106. Qe5+ Qg7 107. Qb8+! forking king and queen is what I found. 107...Qxb8 is stalemate, and otherwise White plays 108. Qxb1. |
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Feb-21-08
| | dzechiel: <Or 106 Qe5+ ...Qg7, 107 Qe8+ ...Qg8, 108 Qe5+ in this line, any K move is met with Qg7+ and any Qg7 move is met with Qe8+ - the position can be repeated 3 moves in a row forcing a draw.> Close, but in this line the 109 Qg7+ is met with 109...Kxg7! and there's no stalemate. |
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| Feb-21-08 | | zooter: ok, quite easy even though i spent sometime looking at various options, but it is very clear that white needs to draw and if he plays 106.Qh7+ Kxh7 is stalemate as the white king has nowhere to go. But off course 106...Qxh7 is mate What other attempts does white have?
Ok, how about 106.Qe5
106...Kg8 107.Qg7+ ends in stalemate irrespective of whether black recaptures with the queen or king 106...Qg7 107.Qb8+ threatens the queen on b1 and if black captures the queen, its again stalemate... 4/4 this week....(if i'm right!) |
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Feb-21-08
| | dzechiel: <Vanish Doom: 106. Qe5+ Qg7 107. Qb8+! forking king and queen is what I found. 107...Qxb8 is stalemate, and otherwise White plays 108. Qxb1.> I think this is the optimal line! Much more economical than mine. Good stuff, Vanish Doom! |
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| Feb-21-08 | | gadfly: <dzechiel> In your line, after 109 Qe4+, doesn't 109...Qg6+ actually win for black or am I missing something obvious? |
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| Feb-21-08 | | zooter: <dzechiel: <rustymatin: isnt it just Qe5+, black moves his king, Qg7+ and stalemate follows with any move for black if black blocks Qe5+ with Qg7, then again Qxg7 stalemate> If 106 Qe5+ Qg7 107 Qxg7+ Kxg7 is not stalemate.> off course, it is...(it better be!!!) my line is based on this... |
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| Feb-21-08 | | Vanish Doom: <gadfly> You're right. Qe4+ does lose to Qg6+. <zooter> No, it's not stalemate, as White can play Kg5 or Kg4. |
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| Feb-21-08 | | zooter: <Vanish Doom: <gadfly> You're right. Qe4+ does lose to Qg6+. <zooter> No, it's not stalemate, as White can play Kg5 or Kg4.> I think there is a major confusion here...my line is the same as your line... 106.Qe5+ (not Qe4)...followed by Qg7 (not Kg8 107.Qg7+) and 107. Qb8+ .... |
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Feb-21-08
| | mkrk17: I guess White needs to keep on giving checks, until sometime when he can give up the queen with stalemate. |
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| Feb-21-08 | | zb2cr: Okay, White is down by a Queen, his King is not close enough to support his Queen in a mate, so this must be a draw swindle. We can dismiss 106. Qh7+? right away, as 106. ... Qxh7#. If 106. Qe5+, Black can move his King to either g8 or h7. In either case, White then does a desperado with his Queen: 107. Qg7+! Now, capturing with either the Black King or the Black Queen stalemates White. So Black must play 106. ... Qg7. Now what?
107. Qb8+ looks right. If 107. ... Qxb8, White is stalemated (the Black Queen on the b-file is irrelevant). If 107. ... Kh7; 108. Qxb1+ defends the potential mating square on g6 just in time, and now it's Black who must look at a draw. 108. Qxb1 also works against 107. ... Qg8. |
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Feb-21-08
 | | SuperPatzer77: I completely agree with Vanish Doom. It is 106. Qe5+!! (only move for a draw) Qg7, 107. Qb8+! Qg8, 108. Qxb1 Qh7+, 109. Qxh7+ Kxh7 = Thus, White with an h-pawn is unable to win the pawn endgame. It is, of course, a draw. Well-done, Vanish Doom! |
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Feb-21-08
 | | MostlyAverageJoe: Personally, I thought that this was Monday-Tuesday level (forced solution in 3 moves), but I got late to it, and see that <Vanish Doom> already had a complete solution posted. <dzechiel>: Note that <gadfly> & <Vanish Doom> are 100% correct. Your line is not just less economical, it loses for the white: 109. Qe4+ Qg6+ 110. Qxg6+ Qxg6# Since there is nothing more to add to <Vanish Doom>'s post, I run my Hiarcs-based method and found that it evaluates today's puzzle on the Wednesday level - this is kinda surprising since engines are usually useless without tablebases (and while Hiarcs figured out the best moves on both Mon/Wed this week, it did not see that they were draws). Tuesday puzzle was more within the limits of my evaluation method, but it was still showing tiny advantage, not a dead draw. Today is really the only endgame this week that an engine can solve easily, thanks to the quick choice between forced stalemate or obviously drawn Q vs Q + rook pawn. |
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| Feb-21-08 | | dovif: White missed
18 BxH6 which would win a R |
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Feb-21-08
| | MostlyAverageJoe: <dovif: White missed 18 BxH6 which would win a R> No, it would just lose B after 18...Nxh6. |
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| Feb-21-08 | | zooter: ah...i found the solution late and i don't want any praise...but <Vainsh Doom> actually says that my solution is incorrect :( though its the same move-by-move to his....!!!! Again i haven't found any explanation of <dzechiel>'s post <If 106 Qe5+ Qg7 107 Qxg7+ Kxg7 is not stalemate.> which confused me as my solution is based on the fact that Kxg7 is indeed stalemate. I guess he made a mistake with the co-ordinates |
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| Feb-21-08 | | Manic: Doesn't 106.Qe5+ Qg7 107.Qe8+ Kh7 108.Qg8+ also work? |
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Feb-21-08
| | MostlyAverageJoe: <Manic: Doesn't 106.Qe5+ Qg7 107.Qe8+ Kh7 108.Qg8+ also work?> It does, but 107...Kh7 is a mistake. 107...Qg8 wins for the black. <zooter: ah...i found the solution late and i don't want any praise...but <Vainsh Doom> actually says that my solution is incorrect :( though its the same move-by-move to his....!!!!
Again i haven't found any explanation of <dzechiel>'s post <If 106 Qe5+ Qg7 107 Qxg7+ Kxg7 is not stalemate.>> Here's the position after 106 Qe5+ Qg7 107 Qxg7+ Kxg7: 
click for larger viewand I bet this is what <Vainsh Doom> was replying to. |
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| Feb-21-08 | | Stoimenov: 1.qe5+ and
if 1..kg8 or kh7 2.qg7+ and its a stalemate
if 1..qg7 then 2.qb8+ and now if 2..qxb8 its stalemate or if 2..~ 3.qxb1 and white is a pawn up. |
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| Feb-21-08 | | zooter: <MAJ> Thanks, I got confused as I had the following lines a) 106.Qe5+ Qg7 107.Qb8 and
b) 106.Qe5+ Kh8 107.Qg7
and was wondering how it was NOT a stalemate after line (b) |
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