< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 4 ·
|Jul-19-07|| ||Magic Castle: <mostly average joe><Bakuaser>. I don't get your points. Rh3 is check and white is forced to take the rook either with his King or h pawn. So why not start with 42...Qg7+. White must take the queen with the rook or otherwise black will take the rook and go one rook up. After 43. RxQ Rh3+. Then it is stalemate because the King has no place to go because the rook has to be taken. Reversing the first checks can be dangerous and white may win the exchange. for example: 42....Rh3+ 43. Kh3 Qh8# 44. Bh6 removing the stalemate. 44....Qh6 45. Kg3 and the white King escapes via h2 to g1 with material superiority. Will you please enlighten me what I missed. I am just a beginner.|
|Jul-19-07|| ||TrueBlue: difficult puzzle! maybe the kind of puzzle that is easy for computers, but difficult for humans. I did get it after 20 minutes or so and after realizing I was looking for a stale mate ....|
|Jul-19-07|| ||openingspecialist: First 10 seconds I thought I'm looking for a draw. Tried Qxf3 etc. Went to the toilet came back for another attempt with a new mindset - stalemate. After looking at the obvious Rxh3 and Qg7 I saw Qg7+ Rxg7 Rxh3+ K/gxh3. Now to my own interests. I'm exploring e4 e5 options for a friend (as white) who is about to play an extremely important game and I believe I have found a decent non-book line. It goes as follows 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. c3 Nf6 5. d4 exd4 6. cxd4 Bb4+ 7. Nc3 Nxe4 8. 0-0 Nxc3 9. bxc3 Bxc3 10. Bxf7+! Kxf7 11. Qb3+ - any comments on my findings?|
|Jul-19-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <Magic Castle: <mostly average joe><Bakuaser>. I don't get your points>|
Maybe my post was confusing by not explicitly pointing out the solution, but I *did* point out which one was not good.
My point was that there were two moves to consider, and only one was a draw, so it might be tricky to find the one that wins.
Here's a quote from myself:
<42 ... Rxh3 43. Qh8+ ... white ... winning ... Not good.>
<42 ...Qg7+ 43. Rxg7 ... Now, 43 ... Rxh3 and white must take the rook, stalemating the black.>
Hopefully, the above clarifies my points, lost in a stream of consciousness :-)
|Jul-19-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <Bakuaser: i guess i completely missed everything about this beautiful puzzle > Take it easy - the position is tricky and there are a couple ways in which white could botch the play after Rxh3, so that move is quite seductive. For example, the following lines draw:|
42. ... Rxh3+?? 43. Kxh3 Qh8+ 44. Kg3?? Qh3+
42. ... Rxh3+?? 43. gxh3 Qg7+ 44. Kh2?? Qg2+
|Jul-19-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <TrueBlue> Actually, computers do not find this puzzle very easy, even if it needs only 3-ply analysis. They usually try to preserve material, and it takes quite a bit of computation to figure out that dropping Q+R is actually a good idea.|
I suspect this puzzle will be very polarizing - some will find it very easy, others will find it difficult. I don't expect many opinions in the middle.
|Jul-19-07|| ||FSR: Figured it was a stalemate, but it took me a couple of minutes to figure out how. Cute.|
Oh no! Just looked at the game score -- evidently black RESIGNED instead of stalemating?! That's gotta hurt!
|Jul-19-07|| ||Captain Scarlet: A few too many !!s being used by some people!! This was rather an easy puzzle and although the moves are pretty they are not hard to find.|
|Jul-19-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <openingspecialist: any comments on my findings?>|
You might want to post it on The Kibitzer's Café, not here.
|Jul-19-07|| ||dzechiel: An interesting position in that it's black to move, but he has so few legal moves, and even fewer good moves.|
I strongly suspect that black will play for a stalemate, as currently he's down two pawns with a lousy position.
Seems like 42...Qg7+ is the move. After 43 Rxg7 (else 43...Qxd7 ) then 43...Rxh3+ and white must capture the rook forcing stalemate on black.
Really not that difficult, because the moves are so forcing.
|Jul-19-07|| ||vibes43: I found it difficult. I was thinking stalemate at one point and thinking Qg7+ was no way winning at another point but didn't combine the two thoughts. But do I get credit for sleeping at Knights Inn last night? stalemates throw me but good puzzle.|
|Jul-19-07|| ||Honza Cervenka: For those who think that todays puzzle was too easy I have one a bit tougher.:-)|
click for larger view
White to move. The solution can be found at Bogoljubov vs Alekhine, 1929
|Jul-19-07|| ||Honza Cervenka: <This was rather an easy puzzle and although the moves are pretty they are not hard to find.> It is quite easy as a puzzle but to find this resource over the board in the real game is quite different matter.|
|Jul-19-07|| ||Honza Cervenka: And another one:
click for larger view
White to move. For the solution see De Riviere vs T W Barnes, 1856
|Jul-19-07|| ||melianis: found a stalemate, not a win|
|Jul-19-07|| ||Gilmoy: Black is down 2 pawns, his K has no move, his N is pinned, and his Q is attacked. Furthermore, White's Q skewers Qa3+ (with swift #, since Black's K has no move). Black's Q must defend the N and a3. Black has "only" the moves:|
[A] 42..Q(c5,c1) 43.Rc7 and Black has no check, 1-0.
[B] 42..Qxf3+ 43.Kxf3 1-0.
[C] 42..Rc1 43.Bxc1 1-0.
[D] 42..Rxh3+ 43.Kxh3 1-0.
Anything else allows either Qxc6+ or Qa3+. Apparently, Black has no miracle win. Hence, we shift gears and look for a lifeline: Black's "K has no move". White's K has almost no moves, either. Swindle!
[E] 42..Qg7+! 43.Rxg7 (43.Kh4 Qxd7 44.Qa3+ Na7 0-1) Rxh3+ 44.(K,g)xh3 stalemate!
Cute point: Even if White could somehow decline the R (e.g. 44.K<teleports-to>g1), then 44..Rxf3 45.gxf3 and White's bad B and doubled pawns are blockaded, and Black still draws!
|Jul-19-07|| ||willyfly: Black is down by 2s, his is pinned, his is behind enemy lines, his cannot move, his is en prise and if his gives up defense of the it's a mate in one. White doesn't have many moves but looks secure. The exchange of s removes some of the tension for Black - but I don't see what's next - and since it's Thursday in a week of tough puzzles - I probably won't find it. So I'm just going to look.|
so far this has certainly been a week of intriguing puzzles - when I looked at the game continuation I figured it was a joke by <CG.com> that the best move at this point was to resign - then I read the comments and wondered if we are all looking at the same page - maybe it's my lack of experience or my simpleminded <play to win till you lose> mentality but I'm disappointed with this one.
|Jul-19-07|| ||4i4mitko: so Qg7 and Rxh3 stalemate so the problem
was to see that Black are playnig for a draw probably
that's why its medium but its quite easy infact
|Jul-19-07|| ||realbrob: I suppose those are patterns you need to have seen before to use them to solve a puzzle. I solved some stalemate puzzles, but usually they were queen and pawns endgames. Very instructive, though.|
|Jul-19-07|| ||Benzol: I found the stalemate draw idea but did Black resign or run out of time here as it's 1-0 not 1/2-1/2?|
|Jul-19-07|| ||skemup: i did not find it:( waiting for tomorow:)|
|Jul-19-07|| ||Marmot PFL: Clever stalemate that I'm surprised black (a 2200 player!) missed, lucky though it was.|
|Jul-19-07|| ||willyfly: After thinking on this a little longer I remembered that I had done this very same thing (played for a draw/stalemate) in a few of my own games for the sake of tournament standing - but since it was a puzzle I figured there was a winning move for Black and didn't think of playing for the draw - so I retract part of my earlier statement - maybe there's still hope for me - good puzzle CG|
|Jul-19-07|| ||Edmemphis: Finally after about 4 or 5 minutes I realized it was a stalemating position. Reminds me of when I was about a 1300 beating an expert and he reeled off one of these on me. Very disappointing to say the least. I think we all can take something away from this one! Always look for stalemate before resigning!|
|Jul-19-07|| ||CapAnson: Yeah this one just didn't occur to me. I can imagine the look on Spence's face when this was pointed out to him afterwards.|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 4 ·