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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing > |
| Sep-20-07 |
| soberknight: I saw the four moves that were needed, but I didn't manage to put together the move order. |
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Sep-20-07
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| kevin86: I missed this one,because I failed to see that the knight had to be diverted as well as the bishop. I guess 24  e4 does win,but not as fast of clearly as the text |
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Sep-20-07
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| MostlyAverageJoe: <xrt999: I got the moves, but after 24.Bxb6 axb6, I played Rxa8 first, after black takes on a8 I THEN played d7, moving the bishop off the c6 square allowing the Knight to jump into its beloved e4 square> The problem is that if you play d7 AFTER rook exchange, black is not obligated to take. He can play Qe7, preventing the promotion, while its bishop still protects the e4 square. White still has some advantage, but not much - just the fact of having the advanced pawn (which at this point is difficult to promote). |
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Sep-20-07
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| YouRang: What a great combination! The knight threatens a fork that that black is curiously helpless evade. But to see how to set this up at move 24 is amazing. I didn't get it, but I enjoyed it. :-) |
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Sep-20-07
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| MostlyAverageJoe: < dabearsrock1010: <MAJ> That diagram is bad for black> Yeah, this was the point. <leow> thought that white would get mated in his line. |
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Sep-20-07
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| MostlyAverageJoe: < xKinGKooLx: This should have been a Friday or Saturday puzzle, in my opinion> Strangely enough, this puzzle shows up in my evaluation (see MostlyAverageJoe chessforum) as easier than yesterday's - but when I looked at the lines (this was before anyone even ventured a solution) with software, my guess was that humans will have a difficult time with it. From comments here, I see that my guess was correct (as evidenced by many admissions of having missed it, and little consideration given to 24...f6). By the way, both 24.Ne7 and 24.Rxa7 leave white with small advantage, and they present black with a opportunities to blunder (which might get non-grandmaster players suckered in OTB - see my analysis of 24.Rxe7 on the first page of comments). <Mortadulo> I can confirm <psmith>'s line from Fritz - Hiarcs agrees, and, ccording to some sliding forward/backward analysis, the best play for both sides after 24...f6 is this: 25. d7 Bxd7 26. Qd4 Bc6 27. Rxa7 Rxa7 28. Bxa7
<psmith: 24. Rxa7 Nd7 ...> This line does not seem to have much advantage - evaluates at a bit less than 1 pawn's worth. |
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Sep-20-07
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| blair45: The back row mate had me stumped for a while, but then I saw that after 28 Nf6+, no matter where the king goes, he'll be in check next move, allowing White to play 30. Q back or make a hole or Kf1. |
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Sep-20-07
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| YouRang: <blair45> Yes! This little subtlety is what (IMO) makes this puzzle so tricky. No matter what, black has no time to take advantage to white's weak back rank. |
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Sep-20-07
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| ajk68: Does 22...Bxe5 get a question mark?
22...Bxe5?
It seems to create a signficant dark square weakness. |
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Sep-20-07
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| YouRang: <ajk68: Does 22...Bxe5 get a question mark? > Perhaps so.
22...Nd5 or even 22...f5 would have been much better. |
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Sep-20-07
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| YouRang: Of course, 23...Bc6 would get a bigger question mark (or maybe 2 question marks if you don't support big ones). Again, 23...Nd5 would be better. |
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Sep-20-07
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| playground player: Nope, didn't see that one. What I did see was 24. Rxa7, Rxa7 25.Bxb6, Ra8 (or whatever) and 26.Bd4, threatening Qh8#, no matter what Black does (or Qg7#). Analysis, please. Doesn't seem to me like this is such a bad plan. |
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Sep-20-07
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| MostlyAverageJoe: <playground player: Nope, didn't see that one. What I did see was 24. Rxa7, Rxa7 25.Bxb6, Ra8 (or whatever) and 26.Bd4, threatening Qh8#, no matter what Black does (or Qg7#). Analysis, please> Analysis has been done. Read all the comments. |
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Sep-20-07
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| fm avari viraf: Sometimes, I fail to fathom the motives of GMs. Here, Tuk played 22...Bxe5 which not only weakened the dark squares but also left his King vulnerable to Emms' violent attack. After that it becomes easy for White to give a tactical K.O. punch with 24.Bxb6! [ removing an important defender ] ...axb6 25.d7! Bxd7 26.Rxa8 Rxa8 27.Ne4! & Black is defenseless against the threats. |
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Sep-20-07
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| playground player: <mostlyaveragejoe> Sorry, didn't look at the earlier kibitzing: pressed for time. (Some of us try to do these puzzles while we should be working.) Now I have looked, and 24. Rxa7 still looks pretty good. |
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Sep-20-07
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| patzer2: For today's puzzle solution Emm's 24. Bxd6! prepares 25. d7! to decoy the Black Bishop (i.e. force 25...Bxd7 Rxa8 26. Rxa8) and allow 27. Ne4! with a decisive Knight Fork threat. |
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Sep-20-07
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| TheaN: Bleh, do I get points for at least seeing 24.Rxa7 Rxa7 25.Bxb6 Raa8 26.Bd4? Guess not... Bxb6 with d7 just wins... I was frikkin looking at it but didn't see it. |
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| Sep-20-07 |
| chessamateur: I managed to find this fairly easy. I think through solving cg's puzzles I've been better able to put several tactics together. Of course it is only one so we'll have to see. |
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Sep-20-07
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| InspiredByMorphy: Im suring Im missing something easy here but after 27. ...Qc8 28.Nf6+ Kf8 what is whites continuation? If 29.Nxd7+ Qxd7 |
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Sep-20-07
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| willyfly: Material is dead even. White has an advanced passer on d6 and doubled  s on the b-file. 24 e4 threatens a family fork on f6 but the threat is easily removed by 24  xe4. And while the push 24 d7 forks  and  . It too is easily removed by 24 xd7 or 24 xd7. So whatta ya say we remove some defenders.24 xb6 axb6 25 d7 xd7 26 e4
White now has two forking squares to chose from (d6 and f6) depending on Black's next move. That's as far as I'm going to go with this since this is either the lesson of the puzzle or I'm on the wrong track entirely. Time to look. -----
I've been looking at the game text for a while now and I'm still not sure how 26 xa8 is necessary. But I can see that if 26...xa1 Black can cause White some difficulties and perhaps wriggle out of loosing the but will still end up a down. How about this for a puzzle? 26...Black to move
click for larger view |
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| Sep-20-07 |
| chessamateur: Okay here's the rational. First I was looking for a mating attack with something like bring the knight and/rook over to the kingside before black can react but quickly dismissed it. Then I noticed the pawn fork but the Bishop and Knight prevent it. Then I said if 24. BxNb7 after 24...axBb6 if Black didn't happen to have his Bishop covering d7 would 25. d7 work? Yes because after 25... RxRa1 26. dxQe8+ RxRe8 27. RxRa1 White wins. Then I quickly recalled the Nc3-e4 f6+ maneuver and saw it had the additional threat of the potential threat of mate and the forking of the Queen it also had the Black Bishop under attack twice (White's Rook and on d1 and White's Knight). Black can't handle both of these. However then I said what if after 24. Bxb6 axb6 25. d7 Bxd7 26. Ne4 right away? But after 26... RxRa1 27. Nf6+ Kf8 its more difficult after either 28. RxRa1 Qe7 Black is still fighting I presume. So okay finally 24. Bxb6 axb6 25. d7 Bxd7 and now 26. RxRa8 RxRa8 27. Ne4. And now with the White with the rook on d1 can't handle the combine threats that 28. Nf6+ has, and he will lose either the Bishop or the Queen (Since 28... Qe7 still losses the Bishop). |
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| Sep-20-07 |
| Mortadulo: As I have said I do not know how to put the orange box showing a quote from someone else yet... "psmith: <Mortadulo>
Your line isn't so clearly better for White after 25...fxe5 26. Nf6+ Kf8 27. Nxe8 axb6 28. Rxa8 Rxa8 29. Nc7 Rd8 when Black will play Bd5 and then capture the d-pawn." If black plays 30...Bd5 he fails to Nxd5 leaving White with a fundamental endgame advantage. However I do understand why Fritz would like this line better with d7 being the best solution after ...f6 in this line. I suppose it is a matter of taste. in the d7 line White holds on to a larger material advantage where as the Ne4 line simplifies to a fundamental endgame which is more clear cut to win avoiding any lapses in judgment being ahead material in a position with so many loose pawns. Both are winning yes. I guess I just prefer a simple endgame advantage over a material advantage in the late middle-game. Thanks for bringing it to my attention :) |
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| Sep-20-07 |
| Mortadulo: " InspiredByMorphy: Im suring Im missing something easy here but after 27. ...Qc8 28.Nf6+ Kf8 what is whites continuation? If 29.Nxd7+ Qxd7" 30. Qh8+ ...Ke7; 31. Rxd7+ wins. |
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| Sep-20-07 |
| Larsker: <An Englishman: Very tricky puzzle because you can see what the key tactic involves (namely the f6 square) and yet it is not obvious which piece must be removed or diverted first> Makes me feel better - I messed up the move order like a few others here. |
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| Sep-20-07 |
| Dr. J: <willyfly> I had the same "solution" as you, but I don't think it's as good as the text (26Rxa8 etc.) From your diagram Black can play 26 ... Rxa1, 27 Rxa1 Kf8. Now White's Rook is no longer pressuring d7, so White cannot win the Bishop. White still has 28 Nd6 winning the exchange and eventually the game, but not as easily as the text. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing > |
