< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Aug-07-06|| ||YouRang: Spiffy mating combo by Slade. NN probably thought he was doing pretty good until maybe move 19 or 20.|
As someone else said above, the "bloody useless black rooks" tell the story here.
|Aug-07-06|| ||Timothy Glenn Forney: 9... ♕xb2 10.♖b1 ♕a3 11.0-0 ♘d7 12.♘cb5 ♕xd3 13.cxd3 ♘xd4 14.♘xd4 0-0 15.♗f3 a6 16.♘b3 e5 17.f5 ♘f6 18.g4 h6 19.♖c1 ♗d7 20.♘a5 b5 21.♘b7 d5 22.♘c5 gxf5 23.♘xd7 ♘xd7 24.gxf5 d4 25.♗d2 ♖c8 26.h3 ♖d8 27.♔h1 ♗f8|
|Aug-07-06|| ||Timothy Glenn Forney: 28.Bh5 f6 29.Ba5 Ba3 30.Rd1 Rf8 31.♗d2 ♖c2 32.♖g1+ ♔h8 33.♗xh6 ♖g8 34.♗f7 ♖xg1+ 35.♖xg1 ♔h7 36.♖g6 ♗c1 37.♗g8+ ♔h8 38.♗e6 ♘c5 39.♗f8 ♗f4 40.h4 ♖h2+ 41.♔g1 ♖c2 42.♔f1 a5 43.♗d5 ♗e3 44.♗xc5 ♖c1+ 45.♔e2 ♖c2+ 46.♔f3 ♖xc5 47.♖xf6 ♖c3 48.♖b6 b4 49.♔g4 and black can resign.|
|Aug-07-06|| ||Timothy Glenn Forney: 9...Nxe4 is the best move.|
|Aug-08-06|| ||patzer2: <RandomVisitor: Better for Black were: 12...Qc7, 13...Ng4, 14...Nd7 and 17...Bd7. With misfires like these, the end result is no surprise.> <psmith> <I agree with your other suggestions, but by move 17 it is too late to save Black.> I like 12...Qc7! , and see you both agree 17...Bd7 18. Rxf6! rules out this possibility. However, I'm not so sure about 14...Nd7 keeping Black completely out of trouble. |
After 14...Nd7 15. e6! Nde5 (15...Nb6 16. exf7+ Kf8 17. Rf4! ) 16. exf7+ Nxf7 17. Rd5! Qc7! 18. Ncb5! Qb8 19. Bf4 , White has a strong attacking initiative and Black's prospects don't look good.
|Aug-08-06|| ||patzer2: <Timothy Glen Forney> I presume you like 9...Nxe4! because of 10. Qxe4 Qxb2 11. Kd2 (11. Nd1 Qxa1 ) 11...Bf5! . So do I. Nice find!|
|Aug-08-06|| ||RandomVisitor: <patzer2>nice work on 14...Nd7.|
|Aug-08-06|| ||RandomVisitor: 9...Nxe4 10. Qxe4 Qxb2 11. Nd1 Qxa1 12. Nxc6 and now Rybka prefers White after an 18 ply search.|
|Aug-08-06|| ||patzer2: <RandomVisitor> After a deeper look with Fritz 8 I must agree that with accurate play White can at least equalize in the 9...Nxe4!? 10. Qxe4 Qxb2 11. Nd1! Qxa1 12. Nxc6! line. Fritz 8 continues here with 12...e6! 13. Nxa7! 0-0 14. Qa4! 14...d5 15. Bc5 Rd8 =.|
However, I still like Timothy's Tal-like 9...Nxe4!? as a practical OTB try. I think most human players would avoid "losing the exchange" and go for the "obvious" 11. Kd2! and lose to a well prepared opponent after the surprisingly strong 11...Bf5! . Even in the 11. Nd1! line, finding the moves to give White equality or a small advantage is not so easy.
In any event, 11. Nd1! in this line is a good defensive move, worthy of study.
click for larger view
[Find White's best move (diagram above) after 9...Nxe4!? 10. Qxe4 Qxb2.]
P.S.: RV, could you give Rybka's 18 depth analysis of the 9...Nxe4!? line? I'm interested in seeing how it came up with a White advantage.
|Aug-08-06|| ||RandomVisitor: <patzer2>Yes, that is on my home computer, so when I get home after work I will post what I have.|
|Aug-08-06|| ||Timothy Glenn Forney: Thanks Patzer2 I should have added I use dueling chess engines shredder and fruit ,but I choose the lines I like.|
|Aug-08-06|| ||Timothy Glenn Forney: I use the engines when someone questions my comments,just to find the truth of the matter.|
|Aug-08-06|| ||Timothy Glenn Forney: I analyize move by move this way to find the win.I takes about 2 hours,I got alot of time on my hands at the momment.But the Qxb2 move would work against humans.It wasn't as dubious as I thought,but9... Nxd4 was the choice by both engines.Nxe4 is my idea,but I was just brainstorming,no analysis,it may be dubious.|
|Aug-08-06|| ||Timothy Glenn Forney: I play alot of dubious sacs like that in my corresspodence games,and win most of the time. if you look at my forum ,I posted some of my queen sacs,most would not stand up to comp analysis,but work against humans,Spielmann is my inspiration there.|
|Aug-08-06|| ||RandomVisitor: <Timothy>Nice analysis.|
|Aug-08-06|| ||Timothy Glenn Forney: thanks I need to learn how to copy and paste the analysis from the comp.How are you doing it?|
|Aug-08-06|| ||RandomVisitor: <Timothy>If you are using the Fritz-type Graphical User Interface, move your mouse over the analysis portion of the display, right-click and select "clip analysis". Then right-click and select "paste" into the window where you type your comments. |
I hope this helps.
|Aug-08-06|| ||RandomVisitor: <patzer2>After 9...Nxe4!? 10. Qxe4 Qxb2 11. Nd1! Qxa1 12. Nxc6 e6|
21-ply Analysis by Rybka 2.1c mp:
1. = (0.21): 13.Nxa7 0-0 14.Qa4 e5 15.0-0 Be6 16.fxe5 Qxe5 17.Bd3 b6 18.Bxb6 Rfb8 19.Bf2 Qg5
2. = (0.18): 13.Na5 0-0 14.Qa4 e5 15.Nb3 Qb1 16.Nd2 Qa1 17.fxe5 Qxe5 18.Nf3 Qe7 19.0-0 Bd7
|Aug-08-06|| ||Timothy Glenn Forney: thanks|
|Aug-08-06|| ||Timothy Glenn Forney: [Event "Blitz:4'+2""]
[White "New game"]
[Black "Zappa 1.1"]
144M♗, Shredder8.ctg, D3G♔5091 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5.
Nc3 d6 6. Be2 g6 7. Be3 Bg7 8. f4 Qb6 9. Qd3 Nxe4 10. Qxe4 Bxd4 11. Nd5 Qxb2
12. Bxd4 Qxd4 13. Nc7+ Kd8 14. Qxd4 Nxd4 15. Nxa8 Nxc2+ 16. Kf2 Nxa1 17. Rxa1
Bd7 18. Bf3 Bc6 19. Bxc6 bxc6 20. Rb1 Kc8 21. Ke3 e5 22. fxe5 Re8 23. Kd4 Rxe5
24. Rb2 f5 25. Kd3 Rb5 26. Rxb5 cxb5 27. Kd4 Kb7 28. Kd5 Kxa8 29. Kxd6
|Aug-08-06|| ||patzer2: Perhaps, instead of 9. Qd3, White should play 9. e5! as in A Mengarini vs Reshevsky, 1951 to avoid the complications of 9...Nxe4!? =.|
|Aug-09-06|| ||Timothy Glenn Forney: I like that game too,and I'm putting it in a collection I'm making.|
|Dec-20-08|| ||Domdaniel: Cum on feel the Noize ...|
|Sep-18-09|| ||WhiteRook48: the pinned queen|
|Nov-02-10|| ||sevenseaman: Before crossing the Rubicon with 20. Nc7+, there are several options for attack like the discovered + involving move of the White B on e3. The big plus in the text move is that it keeps 'the bloody useless rooks' remain aslumber in their stables.|
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