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|Oct-17-06|| ||twin phoenix: was surprise how many people recommended f5xe4 instead. Korchnoi is almost certainly correct. (he is a GM...) when you have a chance to play a crusher like Rxd4 you better take advantage asap. was very surprised by the resignation, however.|
|Oct-17-06|| ||Castle In The Sky: Got it-the bishop pair plus the outside doubled pawns are killers.|
|Oct-17-06|| ||jamesmaskell: I got it, though I was the first person on this thread and so I already knew the answer... :)|
|Oct-17-06|| ||Marco65: <RandomVisitor> <30...a4 and 30...h5 are shockers> Black is a pawn ahead and computers should add about 0.5 for the bishop pair (if the evaluation of such advantage given by Kauffman in 1999 is correct). h-pawns have less value than a full pawn, but I think the static evaluation of the position is among -1 and -1.5. No wonder such "pass" moves preserve the value.|
On the contrary 30...Rc8+ seems to improve upon the static value thanks to a little "removal of the guard" from d3.
30...Rxd4 may work with the tecnique of a Korchnoi, but it's actually the most risky move at club level. Dan Heisman wrote about it in a Novice Nook's article on chesscafe: when ahead in material, it is preferable to have everything like our opponent PLUS some material (like in the starting position, one clear extra pawn) rather than fuzzy material imbalances like Q vs R+B or 2 pieces vs R.
I have direct experience of converting a clear pawn advantage into a B+N vs R endgame (while ruining my pawn structure a little to be frank), and I lost! I wish I had read Heisman before.
|Oct-17-06|| ||desiobu: To people suggesting Rc8+, what happens after white plays Bc3 ? White has a chance to restabilize unless I'm not seeing something.|
|Oct-17-06|| ||Marco65: <desiobu> 30...Rc8+ 31.Bc3? fxe4 32.dxe4 Be3 winning the exchange or 32.Ne1 Bg3 33.Re2 Bxe1 34.Rxe1 exd3+ winning yet another pawn|
|Oct-17-06|| ||simsan: oh! Marco beat me to it :-(|
|Oct-17-06|| ||YouRang: Hmmph. I saw 30...Rxd4, and saw that it wins 2 pieces for a rook, but decided that it wasn't convincing enough. There were a couple other moves that looked 'about as good'.|
I ended up with 30...Rc8, winning a pawn with initiative. (Even then, I figured that I missed something.)
|Oct-17-06|| ||simsan: .. never mind I'll leave my analysis in...
<desiobu> After 30 .. Rc8+ If white protects his king with 31. Bd3 then black will proceed to take the pawn with 31. ... e4 threatening the knight and the pawn on d3.
...if white retakes with 32. dxe4 then black plays 32. ... Be3 and the white rook is trapped by the bishops!
So white must move his knight with 32. Ne1 (to protect the pawn on d3, which is now attacked by both Be6 and pe4. This move also and indirectly represents an attack by Rf2 on Bf4. ) . Now 32. .. Bg3 literally forces 33. Re2 which both protects the knight on e1 and threatens the pawn on e4. (no counterplay for the rook in the f-file).
Then after 33. ... Bxe1 34. Rxe1 Bxd3, white is up 3 (somewhat unstructured pawns) with check.
|Oct-17-06|| ||Cannon Fodder: I chose Rc8+. Well, at least I got yesterday's puzzle right. Chessgames.com has changed my whole attitude toward Monday mornings. I thought about Rxd4, but then figured, "nah, too tricky for a Tuesday. It must not work." While I'm sure I'll never become more than a patzer (not feeling I have yet even earned the right to call myself a patzer), I'm defintely learning a lot from everyone's kibitzing.|
|Oct-17-06|| ||simsan: Wasn't this a very strange puzzle for a tuesday? Usually you're supposed to end up with something juicier than two pieces for a rook and what seems to be a winning end game...|
The combination was simple enough, but I'm pretty sure I would have looked for something else OTB (I like rooks).
I guess that is why I settled for Rc8+ without really seing much other than an opportunity to snatch the pawn on d3.
|Oct-17-06|| ||kevin86: Missed it! doggone it! My move was 30...xd3+ 31 xd3 e5 but white just takes the pawn at f5|
|Oct-17-06|| ||Larsker: <Chessgames.com has changed my whole attitude toward Monday mornings.> Is that you, Bob Geldof?|
|Oct-17-06|| ||Caissanist: Missed it, I went for 30..fxe4. As <trumbull0042> points out, that's not the best because, after 30..fxe4 31.dxe4 Rxd4 32.Nxd4 Be3 33.Rd2! black has nothing better than 33..Bxd2 34.Kxd2, which is a better but hardly overwhelming endgame for black. |
The move played, though, is crushing. At first it seemed to me that it's not a big deal to have two bishops against a rook instead of a bishop against a knight, but then I tried to defend the ending against Crafty. The poor rook is absolutely suffocated by the bishops--white can neither defend his pawns nor exchange them.
|Oct-17-06|| ||semislav: Amazing, I actully got it.|
|Oct-17-06|| ||briiian13: i dont get it,
after 32. Rf3 Bxd4 33. exf5 e5
all i see is an even game; why did he resign?
|Oct-17-06|| ||Stonewaller2: <My move was 30.... Bxd3+ 31. Kxd3 e5 but white just takes the pawn at f5>|
I looked at that too, but after 32. ef exd4 (intending ... d3) 33. xf4? e5, no? The text is still better.
|Oct-17-06|| ||zb2cr: <briiian13>,
Try playing a few lines. You'll find that Black's Bishops dominate the board and are capable of sealing up all the entry points from which White's Rook can get some influence on the game. The White King is also nailed down to defense of the Queenside Pawns. You'll find it's fairly easy for Black to bring matters to a successful conclusion.
|Oct-17-06|| ||Suzuki50: <RandomVisitor: top 5 moves (26-ply)...> The last one's in Capablanca's style.|
|Oct-17-06|| ||mckmck: I found it. RXd4 Nxd4 Be3. Then it is easy win|
|Oct-17-06|| ||Starf1re: what's wrong with 30 ... e5 -- threatening b x d3 check ? as far as i can see black gets 2 pawns for 1|
|Oct-17-06|| ||Trouble: I actually thought the answer was Bxd3|
|Oct-17-06|| ||schnarre: A good Bishop & pawn ending!|
|Oct-18-06|| ||Marco65: <zb2cr><Caissanist> Rybka's analysis as reported by <RandomVisitor> shows that White, although in inferior position, is still alive: 32.Rf1 Bxd4 33.exf5 e5 34.Ra1 Bb7 35.g3 Bg2 36.h4 h5 37.Rxa5|
Do you have any improvement on that?
|Oct-18-06|| ||Caissanist: 35..Bg2 and 36..h5 are not moves that I would make, since they give white more chances to go wrong by exposing the h-pawn. My preference would be 35..Kf7, followed by Kf6 with the idea of attacking the kingside pawn chain with the king and the white-squared bishop. This plan is pretty idiot-proof; I can beat Crafty with it, and the program gives an evaluation of -2.96 after 35..Kf7 36.Rxa4 Kf6 (100K nodes). However, even Rybka's line 35..Bg2 36.h4 h5 is evaluated at -3.05, so I guess it's mostly an argument between robots. Perhaps if you asked it to evaluate the position after move 36 then Rybka would see things differently. |
For completeness' sake, here's my winning "technique" against Crafty. I think it's fair to say that if you only need to play this well, then it's an easy win:
35. g3 Kf7 36. Rxa5 Kf6 37. g4 Bb6 38. Ra4 Bg2? (Kg5!)
39. h4 Bf3 40. b3 h6 41. Kd2 Bf2?! 42. Ra6+ Bb6 43. Ra4 h5 44. gxh5 Bxh5 45.
Rc4 Kxf5 46. Kc1 Bf7 47. Rb4 g6 48. Rb5 Bd4 49. Kc2 Kg4 50. Rb7 Be6 51. Rh7
Bf5 52. Rh6 Bf2 53. Kd2 Bxh4 54. Ke2 Bd8 55. Rh1 Bb6 56. b4 Kg5 57. Rf1 Kf6
58. Rh1 g5 59. Rh6+ Kg7 60. Rh1 g4 61. Rh5 Kg6 62. Rh8 Kg5 63. Rf8 Kf4 64.
Kf1 g3? 65. Kg2 Bf2 66. b5 Kg5 67. Rg8+ Kf6 68. Rd8 Ke6 69. Kf3 e4+ 70. dxe4
Bxe4+ 71. Kxe4 g2 72. Rg8 g1=Q 73. Rxg1 Bxg1 and wins.
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