< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Apr-29-08|| ||ianD: Got it.
Easier than yesterday.
|Apr-29-08|| ||whiteshark: Overburdened defender thingy, got it on the spot. Indeed, <Easier than yesterday.>|
|Apr-29-08|| ||NitramBackwards: <johnlspouge> I thought it was something you quoted. (",)
So is 25.Be4 Bxe4 a terrible move for black to make? It still strikes a killing blow doesn't it?|
|Apr-29-08|| ||YouRang: I struggled a bit with this. I actually found 25...Rd2 pretty quickly, after noticing that ...Bxe4 would be mate if we can deflect the queen from defending e4.|
But the best I could see was 26.Qf3 Rxc2 27.Bxc2 Bxc2 giving me two pieces for a rook. No big whoop, but lately there have been some "mild" puzzles like this, so I accepted it as so.
I see now that black might have found greater riches with 26...Rf2!!, but then it wouldn't be Tuesday...
|Apr-29-08|| ||kevin86: I think cg.com has delivered us a series of puzzles from the back of the book. I did see that the queen was pinned down to the bishop e4,but missed the key move. |
It does look a lot like the famous Rubenstein game.
|Apr-29-08|| ||mworld: well i learned a valuable lesson - always check the puzzle for who's turn it is! i was looking for white's best play, doh!|
|Apr-29-08|| ||sombreronegro: There is a mate threat that the queen defends on e4 because of Bf5 X e4 so 25 ... Rd2 seems to win a piece for black.|
|Apr-29-08|| ||The Long Diagonal: I saw 25. ... Rd2, 26.Qf3, but thought erroneously that 26. ... Rxc2 would be the best for black now. I spent almost half an hour thinking, so I agree with most kibitzers this was a very hard Tuesday. But even if 26.Qf3 Rf2, wouldn't instead 27.Qxf2 Bxe4+, 28.Kg1 Bxc2 be a better try for white (having R vs B+N) than going to the endgame 27.Rxf2 Bxe4, 28.Qxe4 Qxf2 etc.? Am feeling tired, so I may be missing something obvious though.|
|Apr-29-08|| ||Magic Castle: <YouRang> After 26.Qf3 26....Rf2 looks like a blunder. Once the Knight is taken by either Rook or Queen, the King can now go to g1 after 27...Be4+. I think 26. Qf3 refutes the puzzle since 26...Rc2 is answered by 26. Bf5.(Not 26...Bc2) If 26....gf5 then 27. Qh5. Looks like white has the advantage but a draw by perpetual check maybe is more possible, with 27....Rf2.|
|Apr-29-08|| ||JG27Pyth: Easy? Rd2 is easy... but Rd1 baffled me, and it's really annoying, why won't my brain learn to look for a second deflection if the first one succeeds?|
|Apr-29-08|| ||YouRang: <Magic Castle: <YouRang> After 26.Qf3 26....Rf2 looks like a blunder. Once the Knight is taken by either Rook or Queen, the King can now go to g1 after 27...Be4+. I think 26. Qf3 refutes the puzzle since 26...Rc2 is answered by 26. Bf5.(Not 26...Bc2) If 26....gf5 then 27. Qh5. Looks like white has the advantage but a draw by perpetual check maybe is more possible, with 27....Rf2.>|
I think you meant to say <Once the <Rook> is taken by either Rook or Queen, ...>, no?
Suppose our rook is taken by the white rook, i.e. 27.Rxf2. Then 27...Bxe4 28.Qxe4 Qxf2 (threatening ...Qf1#) 29.Qg2 Qxf4 (threat:...Qc1+ winning the knight) 30.Ne1 Qxe5 (and black has a winning endgame).
Or, if he takes with the queen: 27.Qxf2 Bxe4+ 28.Kg1 (as you suggest, but...) Nxf4! (threat: ...Nh3#) 29.h4 Nh3 (winning the queen).
|Apr-29-08|| ||sagahelten: A puzzle where you - against the best defense - win a pawn or two in a N+Q endgame is - in my opionion - flawed.|
|Apr-29-08|| ||wals: Saw Rd2 quickly but didn't get the continuation.
<nitrambackwards> welcome, you will discover that we are all equal here, some of course, are more equal than others.
|Apr-29-08|| ||xKinGKooLx: This has to be the most complicated Tuesday puzzle I have ever seen. It was hard to see why 26. Qf3 won't defend. 26. ...Rf2 is brilliant.|
|Apr-29-08|| ||goodevans: Same as yesterday, first move was fairly easy to spot but needed a bit more analysis to back it up than would normally be the case for this early in the week.|
|Apr-29-08|| ||YouRang: <Magic Castle> BTW, you are of course right that after 26...Rxc2, 27.Bxf5! is white's correct reply. I didn't notice the overworked g6 pawn.|
So then, if one didn't find the 26...Rf2! continuation, there really isn't much to be gained by 25...Rd2 (assuming best play).
|Apr-29-08|| ||TheaN: 1/2
26...Rd2 was obvious, for 27.Qxd2 Bxe4+, and even 27.Qe1 Rd1! was not that hard. However, I missed 27.Qf3 Rxc2 28.Bxf5! as some others did.
I LOOKED at 27....Rf2 but thought it lost after 28.Qxf2, however, it seems that after 28....Bxe4+ 29.Kg1 Nxf4! the Black combo continues deadly, as the Queen is pinned, and 30.Qxb6 Nh3# is almost inevitable.
As I still have to search through the kibitz I dunno if this was a difficult Tuesday but it seems like it.
|Apr-29-08|| ||234: Monday puzzle <20. ?> Apr-28-08 B Rosican vs A Hervais, 1998|
|Apr-29-08|| ||jmi: I looked at the refutation 26. Qf3 for a very long time and cannot see why it cannot be played. B+N v R is by no means a lost endgame so I discarded the line but ultimately gave up because I cannot see a completely winning combination. Given that it was a Tuesday puzzle, I thot the solution would be simpler. Oh well.....|
|Apr-29-08|| ||DavidD: This puzzle is very illustrative of a thinking technique often used to find the tactical themes in a position: just look at the one or two strongest moves in the position for you. Here ...Ng3+ is best, but clearly unworkable. So then ...Bxe4+ is winning. Why can't Black play it? It is guarded by White's queen. Can Black remove the defender (common tactical theme)? Yes! ...Rd2! deflects (common tactical theme) the queen. So now Black has a good tactical idea. Then it is just a question of calculation to see if the line works after White's most plausible lines: Qxd2, Qe1 (game continuation), or Qf3. I see from other posts that the ...Rd2/Qf3 line is rather tricky, yet a strong player would clearly be analyzing these lines carefully. I also note a very interesting bias displayed in today's kibitzes: many people seem to be influenced according to what day the puzzle is presented. Yes, I know the general pattern, but each position should be evaluated without even thinking that this is a "Tuesday" puzzle or that this is "too hard" for a Tuesday puzzle. Think!|
|Apr-29-08|| ||DarthStapler: I got the first move at least. Reminds me of Rotlewi-Rubinstein|
|Apr-29-08|| ||johnlspouge: <<NitramBackwards> wrote: [snip] So is 25.Be4 Bxe4 a terrible move for black to make? It still strikes a killing blow doesn't it?>|
If I have a question, I turn to the computer (at least when <MostlyAverageJoe>, the computer master on this forum, is looking after other, more important responsibilities). In my chessforum (click on the <johnlspouge> link on my post to get there), there are detailed instructions on how to download freeware stronger than Kasparov.
Toga II 1.3.1 evaluated 25.Be4 Bxe4 as follows. (I always give the whole computer line, which is undependable near its end.)
[ply 17/57, time 05:00, value (to White) -0.53]
26.Qxe4 Ng7 27.Qe1 Nf5 28.Qc3 a5 29.Qe1 a4 30.Qc3 axb3 31.axb3 c5 32.Ne3 Nd4 33.Nd5 Qxb3 34.Qxb3 Nxb3 35.Rd1 Nd4 36.Rb1 Rb8
Generally, one should consider -1.00 as a winning advantage for Black. So, to answer your question at last, the move 25...Bxe4 is good, creating "pull" for Black, but not good enough to force a win without further errors.
By most people's standards, such a line is insufficient to "solve" the puzzle.
Generally, my standard for a solution is to state the correct next move, e.g., 25...Rd2 for Black today, along with an analysis demonstrating that Black wins at least at least a P without compensation. Some people hate me for my long posts, however, perhaps with justification. Everyone has the ability to change their profile to "ignore" people, i.e., to omit their posts from the presentation, so to each his own here, literally.
Many here consider stating the correct move sufficient. (I call such posts "one-move wonders", because they are mere "puzzle solutions", teaching little one can use in a real chess game.)
In puzzles with several competing winning moves, if one move is clearly better, the solution should probably give the "best" move, but many would disagree. One even has the problem of distinguishing the quality of "good" moves. These murky waters of chessgames.com puzzles have not been fathomed adequately, and the wise do not try.
I hope this screed is helpful to you. As they say on Sesame Street, "Asking questions is a good way to find out things you want to know." Welcome aboard, <NitramBackwards>!
(Oh dear, another long post...)
|Apr-29-08|| ||Billy Vaughan: I didn't try very long on this one.....I saw Rd2, and had the vague idea of chasing around the white Queen with the Rook, but didn't judge the Qf3 continuation.|
|Apr-29-08|| ||PinnedPiece: <handle: Huh... what about 25...Rd2 26 Qe3? I haven't been able to see any way around that.>
27. NxQ BxB
28. Kg1 (Ng2 RxN) ..Re2
29. Ng4 Rg2 (Nd1 Rg2)
with mate to follow, it looks to me.
|Apr-30-08|| ||wals: <johnlspouge> a man of many words|
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