< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 22 OF 22 ·
|Dec-26-06|| ||notyetagm: This is a pretty feeble attempt to win a Black game for a World Champion.|
Contrast this pitiful effort by Kramnik with one of Kasparov's greatest accomplishments, his five(!) Black Sicilian wins at Linares 1999 over Anand, Topalov, Ivanchuk, Svidler, and Adams, all collected for your viewing please in Game Collection: Kasparov's Black Power Takes Linares.
|Dec-26-06|| ||strifeknot: *sniff*sniff* I smell a pretty feeble attempt at trolling.|
|Dec-26-06|| ||notyetagm: <strifeknot: *sniff*sniff* I smell a pretty feeble attempt at trolling.>|
I thought it was a pretty good attempt, myself.
I was recently playing over those 5(!) Black(!) Sicilian wins by Kasparov at Linares 1999 against the world's wlite and the contrast with this pretty pathetic attempt by Kramnik to win a Black Sicilian game is just shocking.
As opposed to Kasparov, we now have a world champion who cannot play to win with the Black pieces.
|Dec-26-06|| ||notyetagm: Game Collection: Kasparov's Black Power Takes Linares|
|Dec-26-06|| ||tjshann: I think it is time for David Levy to renew his wager, but in reverse: no human will win a match against the best computer in the next 10 years.|
As for Game 2, I hope Kramnik isn't remembered for this, ala Bill Buckner or Jackie Smith.
|Dec-26-06|| ||WarmasterKron: <Maatalkko> You make Re1-e3-g3 sound like it was an incredibly deep combination that forced Kramnik into a horrible mating attack, rather than an ugly, brutish attempt at an attack on the Black kingside. Godlike? Hardly. It's caveman chess, Deep Fritz trying to hit Kramnik over the head with a huge wooden club. It might have worked this time, but it won't catch on.|
As for what God might play in a game of chess, who can say? If only we could ask Steinitz, who beat the Almighty giving pawn odds.
|Dec-28-06|| ||chancho: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYla...|
|Dec-28-06|| ||square dance: <As opposed to Kasparov, we now have a world champion who cannot play to win with the Black pieces.> then i guess the "playing to win with black" style must be incorrect since kramnik took the title from kasparov.|
|Jan-22-07|| ||googyi: "alphastrike20: Does anyone know a strong counter to 1.e4 c5 2.nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.c3 as black. I keep getting hammered everytime i take the damn pawn."|
hi, play 4. .. Nf6
|Jan-22-07|| ||who: Take a look at Tartakower vs Najdorf, 1948. I don't know if that helps you.|
|Feb-28-07|| ||square dance: <Kramnik is left without having any strategical goals after the opening while white had many many different types of maneuvres at its disposal.> such as? it seems as if fritz is just happy to shuffle its pieces back and forth.|
<His misplaying later on is not a coincidence and closely related with this fact.> this is just speculation on your part. it seems to me like he was trying to "over consolidate" his position and messed up in doing so.
<In other words, it was an equal and balanced game after the opening.> white was missing its d-pawn in exchange for blacks b-pawn. trading a wing pawn for a central pawn is a well known long term advantage. i think this also goes to the strategic goals aspect of your post as well.
|Feb-28-07|| ||extremepleasure: square dance,
Black didn't have any useful pawn breakthroughs in the game especially in this position which all the white pieces (both of the rooks, queen, both of the bishops. Look at the position after the black 24th move for instance) are altogether directed against the king's side harmoniously without weakening its queen's side. What was the strategical aim of black after the opening. He has a pawn majority in the center but he just can't mobilize them as it requires immense calculation because of the dynamics I have explained above. He has an open b file but he can't concentrate his forces to this one point as this would weaken his king's side as white pieces are deployed more flexibly to attack on the king's side and to defend on the queen's side. If there were clear strategical goals Kramik wouldn't have missed them. He's just buried into variations as he didn't want to make any committed moves without calculating till to the end.
|Mar-01-07|| ||square dance: <Look at the position after the black 24th move for instance> dont you think its slightly biased that you point out the position after kramnik makes his first significant mistake? the position goes from = to after 24...Rb6. at least as early as move 20 kramnik could've played ...c4 with the idea of gaining queen side space and pushing white's LSB around and keeping white's other bishop tied down to the queen side. i dont know why kramnik missed it, but it certainly seems like a better idea than misplacing his rook. |
<He has a pawn majority in the center but he just can't mobilize them as it requires immense calculation because of the dynamics I have explained above.> but thats called playing chess. you cant just decide that kramnik is unable to mobilize his pawns because its a difficult position. even if he is temporarily unable to make anything happen with his central majority he could've at least tried to do a better job of holding on to the central squares, which could allow him to do something later on.
<If there were clear strategical goals Kramik wouldn't have missed them.> what do you base this on? as much as i admire kramnik i dont think that he never misses strategical ideas/plans. i could be wrong, but it strikes me as a logical fallacy that you just declare that there were no strategical goals because if there had been kramnik wouldnt have missed them. im not sure why you think that constitutes a legitimate argument. i guess your use of the word 'clear' is sort of relative though. whats clear to kramnik may not be clear to you and i.
<He's just buried into variations as he didn't want to make any committed moves without calculating till to the end.> i agree that kramnik wanted to play some non commital moves in the hopes that fritz would make some sort of mistake. im not sure why he thought this would work. he should've tried to play more actively around move 20 or so.
|Mar-01-07|| ||extremepleasure: square dance,
The move c4 doesn't change the essential dynamics of the position in the first place as the bishop has no future on b3 and it will go to c2 anyway. Besides, by playing c4 you shut your own bishop on a6.
In my opinion putting the bishop to a6 by playing a5 was the faulty plan in the first place. In this way he develops his bishop by gaining a tempo by attacking the queen on e2, and it could be ideal if the white rook was on the first rank not third. This plan only helped black to harmoniously develop his pieces on the king's side. IMO e5 instead of a5 and developing the bishop on e6 instead of a6 was the proper plan in this position. When black makes e5 in similar positions white usually counters this by playing f4 with the intention of opening file for the rook on f1. But as in this position the rook of f1 is transfered to g3 playing f4 plan wouldn't be as effective as in similar positions, and moreover he manages to exchange an attacking bishop with a defending bishop, and eases his position a little bit. This plan is good in order to try to mobilize his pawn majority in the center by playing d5 as well.
I have just explained why there are no strategical goals by giving the reasons one by one. What are the strategical aims of black in this position in which he can't exchange pieces, he can't concentrate on b file and he can't mobilize his pawns? He played noncommittal moves because he couldn't find any strategical plan.
|Mar-01-07|| ||square dance: <The move c4 doesn't change the essential dynamics of the position in the first place as the bishop has no future on b3 and it will go to c2 anyway. Besides, by playing c4 you shut your own bishop on a6.> there are lines where the bishop goes back to c8 in combination with black playing e5. anyway, its not so easy for white to activate its LSB after ...c4. you might want to look into some of those lines yourself. |
<What are the strategical aims of black in this position in which he can't exchange pieces, he can't concentrate on b file and he can't mobilize his pawns?> well, it seems like he can place his pieces more actively. what can white do besides try and organize his pieces more effectively? anyway, i think all you've done is prove that kramnik equalized out of the opening. white had nothing.
<He played noncommittal moves because he couldn't find any strategical plan.> but what does kramnik's poor play have to do with an objective view of the position?
|Aug-13-07|| ||hasanelias: 10. Re3!
It is very hard to face this move. Any idea???
|Sep-15-07|| ||hasanelias: Hey kibitzers!!! please answer this question!! 10. Re3!
It is very hard to face this move. Any idea???|
|Sep-15-07|| ||D4n: With 10. Re3, the rook is protected by the pawn and a bishop, but it blocks the black bishop, I'm not sure about it hasanelias.|
|Oct-12-07|| ||ZeroOne: Here's a nice article on this game: http://web.archive.org/web/20070519...|
|Jul-15-08|| ||myschkin: Re1-e3-g3! like a machine went human for a second^^|
|Oct-24-08|| ||MarvinTsai: 2 years pass by, Fritz is even stronger now, and so are Rybka and Hydra. In the not finished yet 2008 WCC, many people on the forum use their software to criticize the human players like they know everything. In fact, when computers know more, you know less.|
|Jun-26-11|| ||positionalgenius: <marvin>Yes... computers are bad for chess.|
|Nov-10-12|| ||Ulhumbrus: An alternative to 13..a5 is 13...Nd7 aiming for ...Nc5 followed by ..Nxb3. It is conceivable that White's attack 10 Re3 followed by 11 Rg3 is unsound, but that the refutation is not easy or obvious.|
|Nov-10-12|| ||SChesshevsky: <Ulhumbrus: An alternative to 13..a5 is 13...Nd7>|
I don't think the plan with 13..a5 and then ...Ba6 was best. It might be the B isn't very well placed on a6 and it looks like it will need constant attention.
13...Nd7 looks interesting but would seem to need nerves of steel to leave the Kside open with most of White aiming at the cornered King. I could see how Kramnik didn't want to risk being mated at move 20 or something.
I was considering the simple 13...Bb7. then with pressure on the B-file with a rook. I think the B with pressure on the a8 diagonal, especially d5 and e4, with maybe a later planned ...Bc6 (...Qb7 too?) after ...c5 with the ability for a double attack on b2 and b3 getting rid of the White KB and weakening the Qside pawns might be worth looking at.
|Nov-11-12|| ||Ulhumbrus: <SChesshevsky> As it turned out Kramnik played ...c5 but placed his queen on b7 instead of the bishop, and then did not play ...c4 because in reply to 17...Qb7 White played 18 Bc1 defending the b2 pawn and so unpinnigh the bishop on b3.|
As for the move ...Nd7 requiring nerves of steel, one way to acquire an appearance of nerves of steel is to gain practice playing such a position against a trainer or a computer.
Lasker or Capablanca would advise a player to follow his opinion whether he would lose or not, and to regard a loss as a lesson.
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