< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Oct-10-07|| ||YouRang: Nice, but not too hard for a Wednesday. Mostly because there was nothing else.|
13...Qd3+! <threat: Qxb1>
14. Kxd3 <decoys king to d-file where it is subject to nasty discovered check> Bxc6+ <a VERY nasty discovered check that wins queen back AND picks up a piece on the way>
15. Ke3 <of course 15. Qd4 doesn't work due to ...Rxd4+> Bxa4 <and that nice "looking" pin with white's Q+B battery has backfired.>
|Oct-10-07|| ||vibes43: I saw all the pieces but the discover. Dang - but good puzzle.|
|Oct-10-07|| ||Sibahi: damn .. thought it was white to move :(|
|Oct-10-07|| ||psmith: I think to have fully solved this you have to show that White can't go after the c5 pawn in an effort to equalize material:
13...♕d3+ 14. ♔xd3 ♗xc6+ 15. ♔c4? ♗xa4 16. ♔xc5? e5+ 17. ♔c4 ♖c8+ 18. ♔d3 (18. ♔d5 ♖c5#) ♗c2+ |
|Oct-10-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <psmith: I think to have fully solved this you have to show that White can't go after the c5 pawn>|
I think this would be too strict. First 5 plies are OK. Note that any other move than Qd3+ loses badly, so there is no other hope for the black. The e5+ in your line is very obvious.
|Oct-10-07|| ||playground player: AUGHHHH! How did I miss this? Bloody chess, I'll never get it right...|
|Oct-10-07|| ||SuperPatzer77: <psmith: I think to have fully solved this you have to show that White can't go after the c5 pawn in an effort to equalize material: 13...Qd3+ 14. Kxd3 Bxc6+ 15. Kc4? Bxa4 16. Kxc5? e5+ 17. Kc4 Rc8+ 18. Kd3 (18. Kd5 Rc5#) Bc2+ >|
<psmith> You must've mistyped " ". The correct one is because Black is winning - not White. You should've known that symbol ( : White is winning; : Black is winning). You must've mistyped this symbol . It should be .
|Oct-10-07|| ||Alphastar: Took me less than 30 seconds to find it. My line of reasoning:
It would be really cool if I could play Bxc6 with tempo, because it would add the rook to the attack.
Resulting move: Qd3+! which either wins the rook on b1, or allows the tactical sequence Kxd3 Bxc6+ and ..Bxa4, which leaves black up a pawn with a good position to boot.|
|Oct-10-07|| ||psmith: <SuperPatzer77>
Yes I mistyped. Thanks for the correction. I do know what and mean.
|Oct-10-07|| ||psmith: <MostlyAverageJoe> Well, I saw Qd3+ right away, but then I asked myself the question -- does this really win, or is this one of those save a draw puzzles? (since without Qd3+ it looks to be white who is winning.) After all it's clear White can get back his pawn, and then?|
And then I saw the consequences of e5+. It did seem to me worth noting, at least.
|Oct-10-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <psmith> Our exchange today brings up the following idea: CG should sometimes dish out puzzles where the object is not to find a win, but to find a move that does not lose :-)|
|Oct-10-07|| ||fm avari viraf: In the opening itself, Black gave away his piece in anticipation to regain back with winning advantage. The whole combination of sacrificing the queen & getting the piece back looks delightful. The tactical blow 13...Qd3+ 14.Kxd3 forced Bxc6+ 15.K-moves & Bxa4 |
|Oct-10-07|| ||SuperPatzer77: <psmith> No problem at all. We're awfully human after all, you know that? Well, I'm still a "Super Patzer". LOL. We can sometimes make a mistake like you did. I completely agree with you on your explanation about 13...Qd3+!!. I wasn't able to find the best move for Black - 13...Qd3+!! to prevent White from threatening Rb8#. I tipped my hat off to you, PSmith.|
|Oct-10-07|| ||dzechiel: <MostlyAverageJoe: <psmith> Our exchange today brings up the following idea: CG should sometimes dish out puzzles where the object is not to find a win, but to find a move that does not lose :-)>|
That's exactly how I started to feel about this position after examining it for a couple of minutes: "How does black keep from losing?"
This is a good idea, <MAJ>, essentially the same as finding a drawing combination in a "lost" endgame position, but more difficult to prove.
|Oct-10-07|| ||ruzon: Can anyone explain why 20. ... exf4 is better than Bxf4?|
|Oct-10-07|| ||outsider: damn. another game i knew.|
|Oct-10-07|| ||pawnofdoom: Games like this have been played before. I'm surprised these moves aren't opening theory yet. Instead of 13. ♖b1 in this game, the other two games which follow similar lines have 13. ♕b3, giving back material, and in both games, white won in less than 30 moves, because after the material was given back, white got a huge attack. Here, white is more greedy and tries to keep the rook.|
And the other two games I'm talking about are
Yusupov vs N Morrison, 1981
Nezhmetdinov vs Lusikal, 1951
|Oct-10-07|| ||Aurora: I found 13...Qd3+ 14. Kxd3 Bxc6+ 15. K~ Bxa4 winning a pawn.|
Discovered check is the dive-bomber of the chessboard.
|Oct-10-07|| ||Eurotrash: Great puzzle! At first glance, it looks as though black is in terrible trouble. Turns out is white that holds the trumps.|
|Oct-10-07|| ||Fezzik: This was a nice two-mover to get out of what seemed to be a really bad position! |
Nice puzzle, too!
|Oct-10-07|| ||TheaN: 3/3
Although I should be ashamed that I didn't notice White's combination if Black had passed (thus looking at moves with the DS Bishop, or any other Queen move). Outside the box (the mate), however, Black is in trouble anyway with a piece down.
13....Qd3+!! is a gem of a move. I noticed that 14.Ke1 was futile in account of 14....Qxb1 and that 14.Kd3 Bxc6+ 15.Ke3 (Kc4 Bxa4 16.Kxc5 e5+ with trouble for the King) Bxa4 which AT LEAST saves Black's draw but he has or maybe even . White's continuation was pretty poor TBH.
|Oct-10-07|| ||nateinstein: I had an easier time convincing myself I found the right move with this queen sac than Monday's!|
|Oct-10-07|| ||Phony Benoni: <ruzon: Can anyone explain why 20. ... exf4 is better than Bxf4?>|
My guess would be that 20...exf4 provides the option of ...Rfe8, putting pressure on the e-pawn and the king behind it. Doubled pawns are often less important than the half-open files they provide.
20...Bxf4 would keep the position more closed, making it harder to bring the rook on f8 into the game effectively. While the bishop may look more effective on f4, it is actually doing little on that square (....Rd2+ is easly stopped) and actually has fewer options than it would on h6.
|Oct-10-07|| ||tal lover: I found the solution but after the tatical blow i though that be only one pawn ahead wasnt the solution|
|Oct-10-07|| ||znprdx: <you rang... Mostly because there was nothing else> BINGO...and I was just about to give up... CUTE, but what makes this work is Bh6+, otherwise not much happening|
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