< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Mar-22-07|| ||TrueBlue: saw it all the way, after missing few puzzles, back in the game :) Lovely combination, just the way I like it!|
|Mar-22-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <Aristarchos: I agree with <goodevans>, I also thought that 20. Qh5 Nf8 21. Bf7! would win. Is there any defense for Black?>|
Yeah, this was my idea too, except for 21 ... Bd6, blocking pawn d5 from doing mischief, and providing defense to the seventh rank in case of white Bh6. This seems better than <Manequinho>'s 21 ... g6
For example: 20. h5 f8 21. f7 d6 22. g6+ xg6 23. xg6 h6 and now what?
click for larger view
Now, 24. xh6 gxh6 25. xh6+ g8 does not lead much anywhere, after black does g7.
<midwood2001: 20. Nf5 also wins, but more laboriously> How?
|Mar-22-07|| ||Timex: That was a hard puzzle.|
|Mar-22-07|| ||YouRang: I got the main idea, although I couldn't quite visualize far enough to handle all lines involved.|
I quickly spotted the sad state of the immobilized black king. My first guess was 20. Qh5, pinning the h pawn with the threat of 21. Ng6#. But black had at least a couple ways to slip out (20...h6 or 20...Nf8).
The next idea was to first sac the knight with 20. Ng6+ hxg6. The advantage here is that the doubled black g pawns really work against black. They create a 'mating corridor' on the h file, and it's hard to get doubled pawns out of the way.
Next comes 21. Qg4 (threatening Qh4#), to which the only reply is 21...Nf8. But after 22. Bf7, white has a murderous attack going. Here, I couldn't see far enough to know that mate was forced, but I was pretty sure that black would have to shed some serious material to escape, making the knight sac worthwhile.
|Mar-22-07|| ||beatles fan: found it. The more i solve puzzles, the more i notice how tactics are just ideas. liKE if i had a knight here the position would be winning. Stuff like that.|
|Mar-22-07|| ||twin phoenix: i transposed B-f7 playing 22. Q-h4, N-h7 23. B-f7 with the same threats as in the game. black could then play 23..., g5 but after 24. Q-h5 he still gets mated doesn't he? i think that i get credit but am curious to see if anyone can find a hole in my logic.|
|Mar-22-07|| ||schnarre: I also looked at 20. Ng6+ originally, though I found myself favoring 20. Qh5 in the long run.|
|Mar-22-07|| ||tallinn: <twin phoenix: 22. Qh4...> Sorry to say but 22. Bf7 is essential, anything else puts black in advantage:|
22. Qh4 Nh7 23. Bf7 f5 and now White has no time for Bxg6
22. Qh3 Nh7 23. Bf7 Qc8 with the same idea of threatening to take out the white queen.
After 22. Bf7 f5 does not work: 23. Qh3+ Nh7 24. Bxg6 and mate unavoidable and 22. Bf7 Nh7 23. Bxg6 f5 24. Qh5 again with mate.
It is funny that black can avoid immediate mate for the price of being two bishops down.
22. Bf7 Bxd5 ("best" defense) 23. exd5 f5 (now it "helps" as well) 24. Qh3+ Nh7 25. Bxg6 Bh4 (not just throwing pieces to prolong the agony a move more as fritz likes to do in similar positions but giving blacks king an "escape path" to the - eeh - yes, the center) 26. Qxh4 Kg8 27. Qxh7 Kf8 and now blacks king can escape from the attack starting with Qh8+ via d6 and d5 (getting the white rook into play then with Rd1+ does not work really well after Kc4). Best white move here is 28. Re1 instead of 28. Qh8+ with #17 according to fritz. With the computer giving up at this point humans - superior as they are - don't go that way but end the game as given in the notation and have a beer.
|Mar-22-07|| ||twin phoenix: Tks Tallinn. you're right. knew when i saw the different move order there was probably a reason. (one of the first things i learned when studying Master games...) and there was. i was soooo close and yet so far way.|
|Mar-22-07|| ||Themofro: <I am also one of the Qh5 guys... But I don't thin 20...h6 is a good response to it>|
Agreed if h6 then the bishop sac Bxh6 seems to win by force.
|Mar-22-07|| ||psmith: <tallinn>
Well, my "solution" was 20. Ng6+ hxg6 21. Qg4 Nf8 22. Qh3+ Nh7 23. Bf7. Your 23. .. Qc8 in this line loses to 24. g4.
But Black can hang on with 23... Bc8 24. g4 Bxg4 25. Qxg4 Qd7.
Nonetheless I think White is probably still winning after 26. Qxg6, though there is nothing immediate. (E.g. this is a pleasing line: 26... Bd6 27. Qh5 g5 28. Re3 Kg7 29. Rh3 Qxf7 30. Qxh7+ Kf8 31. Qf5 Ke8 32. Rh7 and Black is squeezed to death, for example 32... Qg8 33. Kh1 Be7 34. Be3 Rd6 35. Rg1 Rad8 36. Rg3 followed by Rgh3 winning.)
|Mar-22-07|| ||psmith: <Mostly Average Joe>:|
I think 20. Qh5 wins too, but again not as quickly.
Here's my idea in this line: 20. Qh5 Nf8 21. Bf7 Bd6 22. Ng6 Nxg6 23. Bxg6 h6 24. Bf5! (threat of Bxh6 with Be6+ to follow) Bc8 25. g4! I personally think White has quite a nice attack here and Black doesn't really have any counterplay. White can play Re3-g3 or Re3-h3 or Kh1, Rg1, Rg3, Bd2 and Rag1. A well timed g5 will break through. Or if Bxf5 then gxf5 and play along the open g-file. Does anyone see a defense?
|Mar-22-07|| ||MasterSavely: i saw that mate.. not that challenging... but what about
20. Bh6 gxh6 21.Qh5?|
|Mar-22-07|| ||psmith: <MasterSavely> 20. Bh6 gxh6 21. Qh5 Nf8 and now what? Your point is...?|
|Mar-22-07|| ||ruzon: I didn't understand 22 ... Nh7, but now I see 22 ... Bd6; 23 Qh4+ Nh7; 24 Bxg6 Kg8; 25 Qxh7+ Kf8; 26 Qh8+ Ke7; 27 Qxg7#. So Black is lost either way.|
|Mar-22-07|| ||Skylark: I got the Ng6+ pretty much straight away; bank rank mate puzzles ftw (although it's sort of a side-file mate lolz). But it's the same concept. I missed the defense ..Nf8, but after I saw it played in the game, I stopped to look for the winning line (ie not looking at the score) and it didn't take long to see Bf7. I wonder if I could have done it otb though ;)|
|Mar-22-07|| ||latebishop: I had the same analysis as psmith as far as 23...Bc8 24.g4 Bxg4 25.Qxg4 but then varied with 25...Bd6 26.Bxg6 Kg8 27.Qh5 Nf8 which seems to hold for Black, although I guess White still retains an advantage.|
|Mar-23-07|| ||Confuse: thanks for all the comments earlier, sorry I came late to respond! Its much harder to respond without searching kibitz that premium membership offers. Not that Im advertising or anything, I just miss it ; )|
Thanks <the backward pawn> I actually miscalculated a line with...
Qh5, Nf8, Qf7, Ng6, Nxg6+, h7xg6, Qxg6 which I thought was winning, when actually...
instead of Ng6, Nxe6 and my attack is lost. Thanks for the insight.
|Mar-23-07|| ||psmith: <latebishop> In your line after 26... Kg8 27. Qe6+ Kf8 28. Bxh7 wins (or 27... Kh8 28. Qh3).|
Better is 26...Nf8 though White has a big plus after 27. Qh4+ Kg8 28. Bf5.
|Mar-23-07|| ||kevin86: I saw this one all the way through. The threat of mate by the queen can only be delayed,not halted.|
|Mar-23-07|| ||Fisheremon: <MostlyAverageJoe><psmith> A winning line with 20.Qh5 Nf8 21.Bf7 Bd6: 22.g4 Bc8 23.h3 g5 24.Nf5 Bxf5 25.gxf5 c4 26.h4 gxh4 27.Kh1|
|Mar-24-07|| ||psmith: <Fisheremon> I agree that your line is good for White, but I don't particularly think it's better than my line. However you slice it, White just has a big plus and the leisure to build an attack while Black has no counterplay.|
|Mar-24-07|| ||aazqua: E5???? I imagine white Spassovved all over himself when he saw the pawn give up any control over the white squares. The game is easy after that.|
|Mar-30-07|| ||gambitfan: un mat du couloir !|
|Mar-01-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: Guess-the-move score = 31. Par = 25.
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