< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Jun-02-07|| ||dzechiel: Yup, I'm not cut out to be a grandmaster.|
|Jun-02-07|| ||chessmoron: Maybe the puzzle can start from 15.Nxe7+!
Does this work: 17. Bxh7+ Kxh7 18. Qd3+ g6 19. fxe7 a1=Q+ 20.Kd2 Qa5+ 21. c3 ?
|Jun-02-07|| ||vesivialvy93: what if in the game line blacks plays 20...Qa5+|
|Jun-02-07|| ||gulliver: I messed up today. I saw 1. Bxh7 Kxh7 2. Qd3+, quite immediately but dismissed it.
I thought white has to play the queen to the a file to a3 or directly to a5 to stop Black's threat of promotion.|
|Jun-02-07|| ||marcwordsmith: <chessmoron> I looked at the same line, and then I see Black playing 21... Re8 and I don't see a forcing continuation for White. White has a dominating position but he's a piece down. How does he press his advantage? Or is there another way for White to proceed after 18... g6?|
|Jun-02-07|| ||marcwordsmith: Maybe 22. Qf5 is decisively strong in the line above??|
|Jun-02-07|| ||realbrob: An important thing I realised was that there was no need for White to prevent the a pawn from queening. If he avoids checkmate, White has a lot of opportunities to win one of the 2 Black queens (the e7 one usually). |
I was wondering what happens if Black plays 18..Kg8. Now 19.Rxe7 a1=q+ 20.Kd2 Qa5+ 21.c3, Black defends the Nd7 and is still up a piece, even though all his pieces are on the queenside and look unable to help their own king (maybe White can play 22.fxg7 Kxg7 23.Qg3, sorry if I'm not accurate but I don't have a board to check the moves at the moment). Another possible idea for White is 19.Re3, threatening Rh3 and then Qh7#. If Black has no other ways to defend he'll have to play 19..Qxe3 and we'll found a line similar to the real game line.
Am I missing something big?
|Jun-02-07|| ||ChesterTheJester: After 18. Kg8 white can just play Kd2. Then after 19. Qd8 fxg7 he wins the rook and gets a pretty crushing attack.|
|Jun-02-07|| ||greensfield: Its pretty obvious that the Black Queen is there for the taking, but do you put it out of it's misery straight away <17.fxe7 or Rxe7> or open up the Kings defences by whipping off g7 pawn first <17.fg7). Being a puzzle I went for the later option. Now what? Whoops where did that come from <18...a1Q#>|
|Jun-02-07|| ||Gilmoy: Retrograde analysis: White must have just played exf6, doubling on Black's Q. Black responded bxa2, a Q sac offer for a1=R#. The mate threat simplifies the problem: White's first move shall be a check. White's immediate goal is to clear d2 for his K, and then he can collect Black's Q (unless he mates first).|
17.Qa5 Qd8 18.Qxa2 Nxf6 looks blah for White.
17.Bxh7+ and White's Q can check out (which clears d2 with tempo): 17.. Kh8 18.fxg7+ and 19.Q(d3,d4)+ depending which capture Black's K makes. 17.. Kxh7 18.Qd3+ g6 19.Rxe7 and White can sidestep Black's promotion, remove the N, and then Qh3 h6-g7 (or 19.fxe7 20.Qh3+ forking the N). 18.. Kg8 19.Rxe7 similar.
Another idea is to snuff the a-threat with 19.Qa3. Apparently, Black will end up with a Q somewhere, either a/b or d8. Where is she less of a threat? The Q on d8 would still be a target: simply fxg7 forks her and the R. Look for a Black perpetual: 19.Rxe7 a1=Q+ 20.Kd2 two en prise Qa5+ 21.c3 looks solid enough. Whte's R is skewering two loose pieces, so White either gets his piece back (21.. Nxf6 22.Rxb7), or sacks an exchange to remove the N, and mates on g7.
|Jun-02-07|| ||kevin86: A unique position at start of puzzle. White attacks the queen twice,but dare not capture it. Instead he gives up a piece of his own and eventually captures TWO queen to end with a winning vs & ending.|
|Jun-02-07|| ||Gilmoy: I missed Black's 3rd option: Give up Q+P for both White Rs. It avoids the hopeless Qd8 line. But it's only an even trade. White still forks the N.|
<vesivialvy93: 20...Qa5+> 21.Rb4+ Kg8 22.c3 and Black didn't get either R. White's Rs would have overwhelmed Black's weak K-side, so trading down was Black's best shot at a draw.
I don't like 23.fxg7 -- it resolves K-side tension. If White just leaves it there, Black can't ever fix it himself, as gxf6 or g6 both allow mate at g7. The immediate 23.Qxd7 seems clearer -- then White's Q strolls back to g. Sample: 23.. Bc8 24.Qa4 Bf5 25.Qd4 Rfe8 26.Qe3 Rab8 27.b3 a5 28.Qg3 and White mates before Black breaks through.
|Jun-02-07|| ||nateinstein: 17 Qa5 is maybe safest, but 17 Bxh7+ is best. Crafty suggested 17 Qa5 with a score of 0.50. It thought Bxh7+ was -1.40 for a little bit, then changed its mind to an even score, then up to 1.11 or so after 18... Qe4 (which is all forced). 17 Qa5 gives black a lot more play in the game.|
|Jun-02-07|| ||Tactic101: Bxh7 was really the only move that could be played. So I played it, seeing Qd3+ following.|
|Jun-02-07|| ||goodevans: I reckon the key to this is seeing that black can't win a rook with <vesivialvy93>'s 20 ... Qa5+. <Gilmoy> gives 21 Rb4+, but I saw simply 21 b4, which also seems to work (21 ... dxe4; 22 Qa3+).|
Don't understand why black felt the need to give up the exchange with 25 ... Rh8. Before this he seemed to have some chances. I take <Gilmoy>'s point, though, that white may also have played suboptimally before this with 23 fxg7.
|Jun-02-07|| ||Fezzik: Since there really was only one variation to consider, this was not especially difficult to play for White. |
Perhaps Black could have improved, but this was a *very* easy puzzle from White's perspective.
|Jun-02-07|| ||schnarre: Got this one right away! (Love these basic puzzles...)|
|Jun-02-07|| ||al wazir: I found it hard to believe that the position after move 16 occurred over the board. But I found the right line, though I didn't have an answer for every one of black's alternatives.|
For example, what if black plays 24...Rab8 or 24...Bc8 ? White controls most of the board, but material is about even, so the win isn't obvious.
|Jun-02-07|| ||Gilmoy: <goodevans: Don't understand why black felt the need to give up the exchange with 25 ... Rh8> Forced. Black was stuck in two different mate patterns.|
A. If his R doesn't move, then 26.Qf6+ mates.
B. If his R moves Q-ward, then 26.Qf6+ Kf8 Qh8#, as the Bg5 still owns e7. Kg8 or Kh7 same as #A.
Rh8 lets Black meet Bh6 with Rxh6. If White hadn't initiated the exchange, Black would have.
|Jun-02-07|| ||openingspecialist: <chessmoron: Maybe the puzzle can start from 15.Nxe7+!
Does this work: 17. Bxh7+ Kxh7 18. Qd3+ g6 19. fxe7 a1=Q+ 20.Kd2 Qa5+ 21. c3 ? >
<marcwordsmith: <chessmoron> I looked at the same line, and then I see Black playing 21... Re8 and I don't see a forcing continuation for White. White has a dominating position but he's a piece down. How does he press his advantage? Or is there another way for White to proceed after 18... g6?>
After Rfe8 Qh3+ wins Nd7. Since I saw this game I've always wanted to play Nd5 but unfortunately the situation has never arised.|
|Jun-02-07|| ||safar: This game was played in the inaugural Commonwealth Championship in Melbourne in January 1983. The tournament was won by GM Ian Rogers after GM Raymond Keene was held to a draw by IM Ortvin Sarapu. This game won one of the prizes for the best game -the other prize was awarded to an unkown player from Fiji, Nazim Khan. You will find the game on his website at http://www.maths.uwa.edu.au/~nazim/...|
The judge for the best game prizes was GM Raymond Keene.
|May-20-09|| ||WhiteRook48: <27. Bxh8??>
um, 27. Bd4 or 27. Bc3 are met by 28...Rag8 29 Qh4+ Kg6 30 Bxh8
|Jul-24-10|| ||goodevans: <12 Nd5!> was a lovely sac. After <14 ... b3> I think white had time for <15 axb3> or <15 Kb1> but continuing the attack immediately with <15 Nxe7+> certainly made for a very interesting game!|
I think <25 ... Rh8?> was a mistake. Wouldn't <25 ... Rg8> have been better?
|Jul-24-10|| ||newzild: Paul Garbett beat me twice in tournament games. I missed a draw in the first game, but he kicked me in the second.|
|Jun-27-12|| ||FSR: The Song of Solomon.|
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