< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 36 OF 237 ·
|Mar-07-07|| ||viennalover: Hi <karnak64>
If we keep our knight off Nc3 and black moves d5, we will be in the Neo-Grunfeld. The common consensus is that white retains a slight edge but it is more drawish. White has an easier life than in the Grunfeld.
|Mar-07-07|| ||viennalover: Also black should play d5 on the 4th move rather than the 3rd in the Neo-Grunfeld.|
|Mar-07-07|| ||AugustAle: <OCF> I'm always game, looks like white may have made a couple of errors though, and; 38.Nfd4, 22 guard 1? This move 3. looks like a runaway.|
|Mar-07-07|| ||ajile: <whatthefat: <ajile: I'm in for 3..c5 and either a Benoni or Benko Gambit.>
Are you happy with the game after 3...c5 4.Nc3 then?>|
Yes why wouldn't I be?
|Mar-07-07|| ||shr0pshire: I am also in favor of a sharp grunfeld|
|Mar-07-07|| ||Hesam7: <shr0pshire> How about the following theoretical line in Gruenfeld:|
1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.d4 Bg7 4.Nc3 d5 5.cxd5 Nxd5 6.e4 Nxc3 7.bxc3 c5 8.Rb1 O-O 9.Be2 cxd4 10.cxd4 Qa5+ 11.Bd2 Qxa2 12.O-O
click for larger view
It is extremely sharp and I am totally in favor of playing it as Black.
|Mar-07-07|| ||Robin01: I see only 41 players have voted so far. Some of our team members must have decided to go on vacation.|
|Mar-07-07|| ||Hesam7: <Robin01: I see only 41 players have voted so far. Some of our team members must have decided to go on vacation.>|
I think people have still 25 hours to vote.
|Mar-07-07|| ||Robin01: <Hesam7> You are correct. I was thinking that our move was due today. Sorry about that.|
|Mar-07-07|| ||dpacaba: <karnak64: We could also be facing a Gruenfeld after black's next move.>
Hmmm... so we let black choose the opening, throwing out our advantage by surprising them on the first move|
|Mar-07-07|| ||playground player: <OhioChessFan> The good news is that Black wins with 3. e6; the bad news is that the sample is only one game, Blair vs. Toresano. I don't normally play, as Black, the kind of opening our team has chosen, so maybe my advice isn't worth much. But it does seem wise to finish fianchettoing our Bishop before we do anything else. I think we ought to, next, start pushing pawns into the center of the board--c5 or d5, maybe preceded by e6. I also think we ought to castle sometime in the next two moves.|
|Mar-07-07|| ||shr0pshire: <Hesam 7> I don't play the grunfeld, so I am not the best judge in lines. But from what I've seen looking through some games is that white seems to have better chances, but I think there are some lines that are relatively unexplored. |
Personally I liked the early A pawn push from several games I saw. And the early A pawn pushers had better chances of winning as black too.
|Mar-07-07|| ||whatthefat: <ajile: Yes why wouldn't I be? >|
Well, I would also enjoy a Benoni or Benko, but I think White can rather dampen things down with 4.Nc3.
|Mar-07-07|| ||doglikegroove: Bless you all, but so help me, the next reference to "throwing them off" or "the element of surprise"-- I'm going to toilet-paper their house.|
Okay, not really. But seriously, so we don't go throught his every move:
Black is not a person. It is somewhere between forty and eighty people. Generally very smart people. And if our team is any indication, quite a few strange people with warped imaginations and a wicked sense of humor. Never mind Sneaky.
Do you honestly think that *no one* over there thought, "hmmm, what about 1. Nf3?" Do you really think *none* of them have any literature on it? C'mon, think about it.
We're not going to surprise them on the next move. I doubt we will at any point at all during the game, ever, let alone the opening. Someone will have thought of whatever our move is, one move ahead.
If we're going to win this thing, it'll be because one of our more creative thinkers will see something three moves ahead in the middle game. And the best chance of that move being there is if we're looking at a *strong* position. Not an interesting one, or a fun one. A strong one.
If we're bored at move three, we need another hobby. Believe you me, this one will get interesting soon enough.
<dusts off coat>
So what might they do next? d5 is right there. Bg7? Anything else?
|Mar-07-07|| ||AgentRgent: <Honza Cervenka> Black's only real chance to do "something" is ...a5, which is adequately met by a3. In the game you cite white goes wrong with 7. b5, better is 7. a3 where 7...axb4 8. axb4 Rxa1 9. Bxa1 leave white better prepared to control the open A file with his queen.|
|Mar-07-07|| ||Chess Classics: <doglikegroove> I mostly agree with you. However, winning isn't everything (sorry about the cliche'.) I mean, I wouldn't think, "Hmm, I'll play 1.g4 because my opponent will be surprised and not know what to do," I'll think "Hey, wouldn't it be fun to try 1.g4? I've never done it before."|
Although 1.Nf3 is obviously not the grob, the thinking could go along mostly the same line of thinking ("Hey, I've never tried 1.Nf3 before...")
That said, I do agree that we need to stop "surprising" them for the sake of surprising them and trying to get a win off that. Why? Because it won't work.
|Mar-07-07|| ||doglikegroove: <Chess Classics> Yeah, exactly. Honestly, I voted 1. e4 and never had time to change it, because the more I thought about it, I was kind of tired of it myself. I'm actually glad we didn't go that way.|
My concern is that when we did 1. Nf3, the whole way it was sold to me was as a way to get to a d4 in an un-orthodox manner to begin with. As it rolled around in my head, I kind of dug it.
So when I come back and we're griping about playing d4 on the *third* move, it kind of worries me.
Believe me, I'll be right there barking to get off the main lines soon. Just not for the sake of doing it, and not so much this early. There's a reason that the main lines are the main lines.
But enough of that. We'll be fine all around. I'm just glad to see the forty or so people are back, regardless of their opinion. Actually, because of it. I hope no one took offense; I was just arguing, nothing personal.
Besides, like I said, I suspect the "d4" types will get us to a stong middle-game, but the "b4" type minds will get us to a winning endgame.
And I can't wait to see that.
|Mar-07-07|| ||ajile: I am a bit disappointed that White decided to go and transpose back into a Q-gambit type opening. The first few moves seemed promising to go in a different direction then games we see every day. ---|
They should make some of these super GM tournaments start off with sharper openings like the Benko or King's Gambit. Either that or outlaw the same 4-5 openings that we see all the time. Q-Gambit declined = YAWN.
|Mar-08-07|| ||Stevens: <ajile> how is this a queens gambit type position?|
|Mar-08-07|| ||Honza Cervenka: <AgentRgent> After 7.a3 black has no need to take on b4. As a black I would play 7...d5.|
|Mar-08-07|| ||popski: Hmm, with 1.f3 it's impossible to play King Gambit btw...|
|Mar-08-07|| ||Robin01: It appears that the black team vote is going to be almost unanimous for move 3.|
|Mar-08-07|| ||ajile: <Stevens: <ajile> how is this a queens gambit type position?>|
Perhaps I misspoke. I just looks like a typical d4 c4 Q-pawn opening.
|Mar-08-07|| ||AgentRgent: <Honza Cervenka: After 7.a3 black has no need to take on b4. As a black I would play 7...d5.> True, but 8. cxd5 cxd5 9. bxa5 Rxa5 10. 0-0 seems fine for white. White is better prepared to play on the queenside, which is the only active part of the board, with moves like Qb3 and Rc1. Also Black can't hold d5 forever with d3, Nd2, and e4 coming eventually.|
|Mar-08-07|| ||c o r e: <AgentRgent> <Honza Cervenka> This dream position fianchetto setup reminds me of positions I have played many times- as black in Modern Benoni games. I don't mind playing it at all, really, but I agree that getting there is unlikely without a knock on the door somewhere along the way.|
Now that black has committed to the fianchetto and hopefully the KID, we may still be able to play b4 and e4 both- which I think may be fundamentally better than our double fianchetto 'target' if we delay the development of our f1 bishop and get it to say, the unambitious looking but dangerous e3. Hopefully the KID faction of black is in control right now. I'd love to see a line like this- it can only be good for us.
Alternatively, maybe someone on black is suggesting 3...c5 right now. If I were on team black, I would be. :)
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