< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|May-10-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: Minor correction of myself: <And if black did not take it <Be7>, then the black queen would be unprotected on e7>|
This was supposed to be: "if black did take it"
|May-10-07|| ||chessmoron: If 20...Kg7 21. Be7 Qa5 22. 0-0-0
Ending may go like 21...Qg8 22.Qh5+ Kf4 23.Bd6+ e5 24.Bxe5 mate
|May-10-07|| ||PAWNTOEFOUR: boy,it sure feels good!!!.........finally!!..it was so nice not to have to pull shredder out!!|
|May-10-07|| ||prinsallan: I missed yesterday but found todays solution painfully easy. ^|
|May-10-07|| ||mkrk17: can someone give the full solution with the most important variations..|
|May-10-07|| ||Bingat29: <MostlyAverageJoe:> Oh yeah. Ne4 is the right move since Rg8 would be inutile to the attack of the 3 pieces. For example: 20. Ne4 Rg8 21. Bd2+ Rg5 <if 21...Qg5 22. Qh4+ Kg7 23.QxQ+ if ...Kf1 24. Bb4+ and mate next move. if ...Kh1 24. Qf6+ Rg2 25. Bh6 and mate next move> 22. BxR+ Kg7 <22.... Kg6 23. Bf6+ Kh6 24. Qg5 #> 23. Bf6++ Kf1 24. Qg7+ Ke1 25. Qg8+ Kd2 26 QxQ#. Did I got it right this time, or I was blind again. Thanks.|
|May-10-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <mkrk17: can someone give the full solution>|
I thought I already sort-of did... Here are some forced lines, this time courtesy of HIARCS. Crucial moves bracketed in <>. I did not analyze the variants after Q-B exchange which follows the lines starting 20 ...; the advantage is clear (and the advantage for the white increases with the increasing depth of the analysis).
18. Rxg7+ Kxg7 19. Qg4+ <Kh6?> 20. Ne4 Rg8 21. Bd2+ Rg5 22. Bxg5+ Kg7 23. Bxd8+ Kf8 24. Nf6 h6 25. Qg8# (<Bingat29> you were mostly right, but note improvement on move 23).
18. Rxg7+ Kxg7 19. Qg4+ <Kh6?> 20. Nf3 <Bxf3??> 21. Bd2+ Qg5 22. Qxg5#
Best line for the black:
18. Rxg7+ Kxg7 19. Qg4+ <Kf6> 20. Qh4+
and now 4 possible moves, evaluating thus:
20 ... <Kg6> 21. Be7 (+3.71, 18-ply)
20 ... <Kf5> 21. Be7 (+6.31, 16-ply)
20 ... <Kg7> 21. Be7 (+4.19, 18-ply)
20 ... <Ke5> (sample forced mate in 12 follows) 21. f4+ Kf5 22. Qh5+ Kxf4 23. Qxf7+ Kg5 24. O-O-O Rg8 25. Ne4+ Bxe4 26. Rg1+ Kh4 27. Be1+ Rg3 28. Bxg3+ Kg5 29. Bc7+ Bg2 30. Bxd8+ Kg4 31. Rxg2+ Kh3 32. Qf3#
Hiarcs produced a better win in the last line than what I was thinking about, but that line also wins after 21. Be7 (+7.11, 13-ply).
I'd better take a vacation from chess now. Just noticed another mistake in my previous comment about "white" king (meant to be "black") being prevented from escaping to queenside. I hope my posts made some sense to someone :-).
|May-10-07|| ||DexterGordon: Thanks for all the analysis, MAJ. Your posts did make sense, after a little translation. :-)|
Interesting how opposite bishops favor the attacking side. Black is horribly weak on the black squares.
|May-10-07|| ||rookattack: can someone tell me why black played 13...Kf8 instead of Nd7 or Qd7|
|May-10-07|| ||euripides: <rook> 13...Kf8 protects g7. Given what happened, it may be wrong.|
|May-10-07|| ||Whitehat1963: I saw the first two moves within a few seconds, but I wasn't even looking for the next two. I'm kind of like Capablanca, I guess. I only see a move at a time, but it's always the best move! (O.K., go ahead and pour it on, I'm obviously asking for it!)|
|May-10-07|| ||bogo78: < Whitehat1963: I'm kind of like Capablanca, I guess. I only see a move at a time, but it's always the best move> Ok I ll be the one starting the downpour. Just kidding. My question is how do you know Capablanca was seeing only one move at the time? Even if he declared so it might just be bogus...|
|May-10-07|| ||kevin86: I'm just guessing that Capablanca SAW the moves far in advance but did not ANALYZE them any faster than he can play them.|
I answered this one correct but missed the last move. I was concerned about Kh6 instead of Kf6-but the former in fact loses very quickly.
|May-10-07|| ||Whitehat1963: Obviously, Capablanca, who was known for being able to mercilessly carry out deep strategic plans, could SEE more than a move at a time. But for whatever reason, he did SAY something to that effect.|
|May-10-07|| ||Plato: <Whitehat> That quote has been variously attributed to Reti, Capablanca, and other masters (Tarrasch, Jaffe...). I believe it is well-documented that Reti did make such a remark, but it's not clear whether Capablanca ever did.|
|May-10-07|| ||zb2cr: I saw this one. Took <circa> 2 minutes, but I saw it.|
|May-10-07|| ||crwynn: I thought this was much harder than yesterday; the first move was obvious and I thought Be7 would happen somewhere, but took a long time to figure out how to put it together. Otoh the ...Kh6 Ne4 line was easy enough.|
|May-10-07|| ||scholes: my first good puzzle in almost 3 weeks .i am just so happy to post its variation after missing even a couple of mondays
these were my variation
i hope they were correct,first and most important thing of this puzzle is king cannot go to f8. square so rxg7 must be the first move .then after Qg4+ king either goes to f6 or h6 .If king goes to f6 then it has got only 2 squares to f6 and e5 to shuttle back and forth .So i thought after f6 we had atleast ne4+ ke5 Bd6+ qxd6 Nxd6 Kxd6 Qxd4+ Kc7 Qxh8.So lets see Kh6.After kh6 we have Ne4 if Bxf4 the bd2+ Qg5 Qxg5# if Rg8 then Bd2+ Rg5 Bxg5+ Qxg5 Qxg5#
But i am seeing the game has different move order i hope that i am not making some very stupid mistake .After checking with rybka i see that i missed
Bxe4 after kf6 Ne4.it was bcoz i calculated kh6 variation first in which line white cannot take the knight anyways todays was better than missing one of first 3 days of week
|May-10-07|| ||YouRang: What a neat puzzle! The first couple of moves were pretty obvious: 18. Rxg7+ Kxg7 19. Qg4+, giving black 2 choices.|
I was a little surprised that black opted for 19...Kf6, since that line struck me as pretty forced: 20. Qh4+ Kf5 OR Kg6 and 21. Be7 threatens mate; black must surrender the queen to stop it.
I had a harder time seeing what to do if 19...Kh6. Still the king is immobilized against the edge of the board, and in grave danger. It took my a while to see the clearance move: 20. Nd4! to create the mate threat 21. Bd2#. In any attempt to avoid mate, Black must dump serious material.
A very satisfying puzzle to solve. :-)
|May-10-07|| ||crwynn: <YouRang: What a neat puzzle! The first couple of moves were pretty obvious: 18. Rxg7+ Kxg7 19. Qg4+, giving black 2 choices.|
I was a little surprised that black opted for 19...Kf6, since that line struck me as pretty forced: 20. Qh4+ Kf5 OR Kg6 and 21. Be7 threatens mate; black must surrender the queen to stop it.>
Funny that you found easily the line I had trouble with, and had trouble with the line that popped out to me at once. I suppose people have different search-patterns for moves; me, I'm a simple man, I like it when the enemy king is in a little box and can't get out, it's when he's floating around on f6 and e5 and whatnot that I take awhile.
|May-10-07|| ||fm avari viraf: The only way to bring the Black Monarch out from the haven is to sac the Rook. The cutest move seems to be 21.Be7 shutting the Queen's dark diagonal & threatening mate.|
|May-10-07|| ||simsan: I have to say I missed this one (didn't have the stamina/time).|
I obviously saw the potential in the first two moves, and I saw the queen could be caught due to the mate threats if the king went to f6, but I just couldn't figure out what to do with the black king on h6. Thought about 0-0-0 for a looong while, but it gives black an important tempo. Didn't see the sweet series of combined threats that could be achieved with the knight and bishop. Too Bad. Tomorrow is probably going to be too deep for me to fully get.
And a note to all the guys who say they get it in anything less than 20 seconds. You haven't got it. "Getting it" requires that you've calculated all the significant lines. Just seeing that Rxg7+ could be an interesting sac, or that Rxg7+ Kxg7 Qg4+ puts a lot of pressure on the black K is NOT getting it.
Especially if you have noe idea how to deal with black's possible responses.
Today I immediately saw Rxg7+ as an intuitive first reaction to the puzzle board. But then I spent at least 20 seconds just to familiarize myself in the starting position. Then I start calculating lines.
|May-10-07|| ||YouRang: <CRWynn><Funny that you found easily the line I had trouble with, and had trouble with the line that popped out to me at once.>|
Interesting. I think I knew that both king moves (19...Kf6 or 19...Kh6) were bad news for black. But at h6, the key follow-up move (20. Nd4!) was harder for me to see because it was a relatively "quiet" move.
The knight that we moved to d4 doesn't give check, nor does it directly threaten mate. The knight itself doesn't really contribute anything, but the *move* vacates the d2 square for the bishop 'retreat'. I think I spent to much time trying to make the knight work as the attacker, when I really just needed it to get out of the way!
With the king at f6, it seems like all the follow-up moves either give check, or present a direct mate threat. Nice loud moves.
Like you say, people see things differently. :-)
|May-10-07|| ||RuyLopezFire: this puzzle was so ez
|May-10-07|| ||outplayer: 8...d6 seems to be better.|
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