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Shakhriyar Mamedyarov vs Veselin Topalov
Mtel Masters (2007), Sofia BUL, rd 3, May-12
Queen's Gambit Declined: Hastings Variation (D30)  ·  1-0
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-13-07  MeatGrinder: Yes, forgot about Karpov, he said the accusations were not worth commenting.
May-13-07  MeatGrinder: Also after San Luis Kasparov said Topalov is the strongest player and his real successor. So that makes 2 ex-world champions supporting Topalov. So whom are we to trust, Kasparov and Karpov (arguably the two strongest WC), or Moro (who hadn'd won a classical game against Topa since 1999) or Kasim and Bareev who are not even in Top 30?
May-13-07  Mameluk: I donīt think Kramnik, Svidler or Leko ever said something about Topalov cheating. For me, most disturbing are Korchnoiīs comments, but perhaps he is bit paranoid.

Eljanov said that in Wijk an Zee he was surprised how good friends are all of the elite players, only Topalov does not join the club. So if he leads the lone war in style of Fischer, Kasparov or young Kamsky, he canīt be surprised he is not the most popular player, and I think he knows it well and that negative feelings of other players towards him are part of his strength.

May-13-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: <MeatGrinder: or Moro (who hadn'd won a classical game against Topa since 1999>

Moro finally got that monkey off his back.

Morozevich vs Topalov, 2007

May-13-07  acirce: What exactly did Korchnoi say?

<Topalov (pronounced To-pal-ov) is the World Champion. Korchnoi relates that talking to the players in Argentina (San Luis FIDE World Championship), they all think/believe that Topalov had computer help during the games.>

http://www.chessvault.com/2006/04/2...

I wonder if that can be right. Well, I don't usually consider Korchnoi the most trustworthy man anyway.

May-13-07  Raskolnikov: <MeatGrinder:...Moro (who hadn'd won a classical game against Topa since 1999) ...> Havent you forgotten something Morozevich vs Topalov, 2007 ?
May-13-07  talisman: some really interesting posts.one thing for sure,Topa got his ass handed to him here.
May-13-07  MeatGrinder: Raskolnikov and chancho, that's why I said "hadn't won" instead of "haven't won" meaning at the time of the accusations, i.e during San Luis (2005) and (2006) the chess Oscars. Still Moro remains with a dismal record in classical chess against Topalov. I guess Topa used Rybka in the 90's and early 2000's to beat him left and right? Not to mention that there was not even a beta version of Rybka during San Luis, which makes his Rybka accusations all the more silly.
May-13-07  MeatGrinder: And about Korchnoi - http://youtube.com/watch?v=M9k5oBga... - 'nuff said :)
May-13-07  cornflake: talisman: some really interesting posts.one thing for sure,Topa got his ass handed to him here.

Topolov's plan with 10...e5 was not good. Opening the center and leaving your king there is generally not a good idea- even for a super GM.

May-13-07  Ulhumbrus: Mamedyarov's 8th move 8e4 may be an improvement on 8 e3 as played in the game Vidmar vs Capablanca, 1936 Black is compelled to exchange on c4 or on e4. 8...dxc4 may be better as after 8...dxe4 9 Nxe4 the Black Q has to move again. 10...e5? may be Topalov's losing mistake, opening lines when he is behind in development. After 11 0-0 exd4 12 Nxd4 the move 12...Nc5 invites 13 Nxc5 Bxc5 14 Rae1+ and on 14..Kf8 Black has lost the right to castle.
May-13-07  newton296: # 1 topolov with 2 losses already! Every since his shocking blunders and missed mates in san luis he hasn't been the same! while kramnik came away from san luis looking even stronger! A reminder of how important winning is for your confidence! topolov will be back , He needs time to recover he also played more than any player in the last 4 or 5 years.
May-13-07  newton296: In this game he loses like an club player . getting his king trapped in the center leaving his king centered and vulnerable and his rooks isolated at the edge of the board. Move ...12)nc5 hoping to gain a tempo to develop a bihop seems a dubios plan to me! but the loser move seems to be 25)...Qd1 trying to win h pawn but allowing white to center both rooks. I dont think topolov saw the mate threats or why play 25)...Qd1 . blunder city again for topolov!
May-13-07  newton296: agree with cornflake that 10)..e5 plan opening up the center with his king still there isnt usually that great an idea even for a gm.
May-13-07  you vs yourself: I don't think one should look at this result combined with pre-elista results and conclude that Topy is cheating.

There could be other factors affecting his play. He lost the world championship by making some gross blunders; his image has taken a big hit. Maybe he lost his confidence and isn't preparing as hard as he did in '05 and '06. The fact that he won't be playing in a world championship soon would also have a negative effect on his motivation.

May-13-07  notyetagm: <acirce: ... OK, I suppose <notyetagm> has always been more of a simple bandwagonist than a true 'fan'...>

No, I was a fan of Topalov's great fighting spirit. But if his fighting spirit is supported by Rybka, then I cannot condone that.

May-13-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  JointheArmy: <notyetagm> Topalov's fighting spirit was evident even before he started dominating. Well it depends where you think Topalov started cheating, but Topalov has always had a great fighting spirit, but from 2004-2006 he has shown a fighting spirit resembling Kasparov.

BTW, if the cheating allegations are true, there had to be a second GM giving his opinion overriding Rybka, since I haven't seen any computer demonstrate Topalov's sacrifices. It'd be hard if it were just Topalov since he can't communicate back to Danailov without it being somewhat more obvious than those videos that came out.

May-13-07  notyetagm: <JointheArmy> There is just too much credible evidence that Topalov is/was cheating for me to continue to be a vocal supporter of his. I am -not- saying that I am certain that he was cheating, just that rooting for him makes me uncomfortable.

Like a poster said above, no one thinks that Anand cheats so why not root for someone who is using only their talent?

By the way, I am rooting for Anand or Morozevich right now to win Mexico City. I would really like to see Anand win the undisputed World Championship. God forbid Kramnik or Svidler should win.

May-13-07  ganstaman: <notyetagm: <JointheArmy> There is just too much credible evidence that Topalov is/was cheating>

Huh? "Credible?" "Too much?" I don't think you even need to be a fan of his to laugh at this.

May-13-07  micartouse: I think there's too much a rush to judgment against Topalov here. There's not enough evidence he cheated IMO. He played some really brilliant wins, and so have about a dozen people in the chess world. Are they cheating?

He's more a target for such accusations because he behaved poorly himself last year and became unpopular. But that doesn't mean the accusations are true. I think his best games don't look at all computerish.

The problem with smears is that it could happen to anyone; it could happen to you if you win an upset for instance. I agree with Karpov; he's seen more than his share of chess politics, and he knows when it's a bunch of crap. Let's wait and see if some serious GM has the dignity to actually make a clear respectable public accusation minus the whispers.

May-14-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: <Still Moro remains with a dismal record in classical chess against Topalov. I guess Topa used Rybka in the 90's and early 2000's to beat him left and right?> I would say that in Morozevich vs Topalov, 1999 he had to use a woodoo doll of Moro and some mighty amulets.:-D
May-15-07  s4life: <notyetagm: Damn, that is amazing. One of the world's Top 10 is -certain- that Topalov was cheating. I have that same suspicion myself, hence my falling off of the Topalov bandwagon. I cannot stand cheaters.>

Anonymous cowards are a dime a dozen nowadays. Nothing has been proven so far.

May-15-07  s4life: <Honza Cervenka:I would say that in Morozevich vs Topalov, 1999 he had to use a woodoo doll of Moro and some mighty amulets.:-D>

heheh. Since there was not Rybka in 1999, voodoo dolls and amulets would have to do the trick. There is just such a one-sided hypocrisy in those Topalov accusations, I can't believe some people is actually buying them.

What a fantastic game BTW.

May-21-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Chessmensch: This game is the subject of Kavalek's Washington Post chess column, May 21, 2007. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...
Sep-14-09  VishyAnandFan: a wonderful game, showing the technique how to exploit a lead in development, keeping the black king in the center and not let black develop his forces
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