Jun-02-07
 | | whiteshark: Second! Again a good game! |
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Jun-02-07
 | | Maxim Dlugy: What a great game. 45. Rc4.. would have kept some slight winning chances. |
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| Jun-02-07 | | sanyas: It seems that the ending of the game, with Carlsen under severe pressure, if not actually losing, was a flurry of mistakes. 37... f3 was a bad idea which should leave white with a definitely winning position. I am not sure that 40. xa5 was best, but certainly 42.f4? (instead 42. c5 wins) was a big error, owing to 42...d3. Carlsen misses this, and reverts to a probably lost position with 42...g6? But the actual blunder was Aronian's 45.g2 (45.c4 is the only move) which allows a pretty deflection followed by a perpetual. Note that Aronian could have continued 48. b4 if he had wanted to, because 48...xf4+ 49.c5 (not 49.a5 c7+) xg3? loses to 50.xb7+. Instead 49...f2+ continues the perpetual. |
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| Jun-02-07 | | KamikazeAttack: <What a great game. 45. Rc4.. would have kept some slight winning chances.> Or slightly losing chances. |
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| Jun-02-07 | | KamikazeAttack: Draw is a fair result.
Black always had a counter for every white's move.
Both players played well. |
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| Jun-02-07 | | Tacticstudent: I think this drawing combination of carlsen can be used as a daily puzzle. |
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| Jun-02-07 | | Atking: <<Sanyas> Carlsen was under a severe pressure.> You might be a bit severe for yourself. Such assurance in your post. May be you argue with a program in hands. <37...Rf3 was a bad idea which should leave white with a definitely winning position> What your suggetion? Else 42.Bc5 is that winning? A good move sure. But lets try 42. ...Qd1 43.Rd2 (43.Qd2 QxQd2 44.RxQd2 b6 45.Bd4 Rf5) 43. ...Qc1 and 44. ...Kc8 Not so clear. I could be wrong I have no program to test. But even if I doubt too of few moves of that game I'm still very very impressed by the way the young Carlsen handled this game. I consider Aronian best 5~3 in the world and a kid of 16 years old just after a deceptive first game equalizes 5 rounds later... |
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Jun-02-07
 | | Marmot PFL: See my move 20 prediction (draw) came true, but what a battle. 20...Qf5 seemed simpler than Qd5 (no h pawn worries, I wonder why not 22...Rg6). With extra pawn and an outside passer at that and the right color bishop I would think white should win. Normally this is the knid of position Aronian wins much more often than not as he calculates so well - maybe a combination of end of match nerves and nothing to lose resistance saved the day for Carlsen. 40.Qe5 trading down looks like a better try than Qxa5. Mistakes on move 40 are rather common, but 45.Rg2? is harder to explain. |
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| Jun-02-07 | | kingsindian2006: magnus holding a draw with black after a win is very impressive, even if he loses tommorrow. Wait till this kid has hormones.... |
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| Jun-02-07 | | Hayasa: Levon you are the best!
www.schaaknet.blogspot.com |
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| Jun-02-07 | | cheski: Hello there,
I read your resume of the Carlsen match
Can't believe he actually managed to wangle a draw. I left after move 44. Do you think that Aronian could have won after 45.Rc4 or would that also have petered out into a draw? |
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| Jun-02-07 | | 2Towers: Great effort by Magnus to draw this difficult game. Aronian should have definitely exchanged the Queens when he had the chance. At least it would have put more pressure on the Kingside starting with the h-pawn. |
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Jun-02-07
| | Marmot PFL: <Aronian avoided exchanging Queens three times and this cost him the win, a win which would have given him victory in the match.>
Rumor is Magnus tossed a raisin at him and Aronian muttered -Just for that, kid I'm going to mate you in the middlegame. |
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Jun-02-07
 | | WBP: I wonder if Carlsen considered 29...b5, in an effort to bust up white's queenside pawn structure which defends the king? |
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Jun-02-07
 | | Ulhumbrus: After 11...Bh3 it may seem that White cannot castle on the King side and that 11 e4 is a mistake. However after 12 Bxh3 Qxh3 Aronian finds the brilliant counter-attack 13 Qb3!! skewering the Nb6 to the b7 pawn. On 13...Qg2 14 Rf1 the attack on the N gives Black no time for 14...Qxh2 and if the N moves, on 14...Nd7 17 Qxb7 comes with tempo and then c6 falls. One question is why this resource works. Why does it enable White to turn the tables and get the advantage? To begin with,13 Qb3 is played with tempo. That means that it makes a threat which Black has to answer. Now on 13 Qb3 the move 13...Qg2 is also played with tempo. It also makes a threat which White has to answer. White can answer the threat of 14...Qxh1 by 14 Rf1. Then Black cannot answer the threat of 15 Qxb6 by 14...Nd7 as b7 falls. Thus 14...Nd7 makes a greater concession to White than the concession which the move 15 Rf1 makes to Black. On 13 Qb3 Qg2 14 Rf1 suppose Black plays 14..Ra6 as in the game. This disconnects the Rooks almost permanently and makes a much greater concession than the concession made by the move 14 Rf1. We can answer now the question why the counter-attack 13 Qb3!! gains the advantage. The reason is that the threat made upon the Nb6 and b7 pawn behind it extract a greater concession from Black, that of the move ...Rb6, than the move ...Qg2 can extract from White. This is partly because Qb3 actually sets up not one threat but two, skewering the Nb6 and b7 pawn, and although the move ...Qg2 forks the Rh1 and h2 pawn, the b7 pawn is of greater importance than the h2 pawn. Having gained a winning advantage, Aronian proceeded to win a pawn. Now at three points in the game Aronian could have offered to exchange Queens or else accepted a proposal to exchange Queens and reached an endgame with an extra pawn. He chose however not to exchange Queens each time. Aronian let the win slip after choosing not to exchange Queens a third time. This was a great accomplishment by Carlsen, defending a lost game until Aronian finally let the win slip. The lesson is clear: If you are a pawn ahead, don't try to avoid Queen exchanges which can lead to a long technical game. Aronian avoided exchanging Queens three times and this cost him the win, a win which would have given him victory in the match. Lasker, one of the strongest players who ever lived, was said to be very lucky. According to Capablanca, the good player is always lucky. according to Fine, you will get lucky when when you get good. In this game Carlsen played well enough to be lucky. <cheski: Hello there,
I read your resume of the Carlsen match
Can't believe he actually managed to wangle a draw. I left after move 44. Do you think that Aronian could have won after 45.Rc4 or would that also have petered out into a draw?> I doubt whether Aronian could have won after 45 Rc4. One reason my post appears after yours is that I spotted a mistake and entered it again, having erased the original. I understand chessgames.com does not like this practice too well, as it can be said, in a manner of speaking, to upset the normal chronological order of the posting of messages, so that it can make a reply appear to occur before the message which it answers. |
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Jun-02-07
 | | Eyal: <WBP: I wonder if Carlsen considered 29...b5, in an effort to bust up white's queenside pawn structure which defends the king?> Actually, it busts Black's queenside rather than White's, by the weakening of c6: 29...b5 30.axb5 cxb5 31.Qc2 Rd8 (or 31...Ne7 32.Qe2; 31...f6 32.Qc6+ Kf7 33.Bxf6 Nxf6 34.g4 followed by g5) 32.Qc6+ Rd7 33.Rc1 fololowed by Qxb5 and Black is lost. |
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| Jun-02-07 | | Atking: Yes <Eyal>. A very difficult game indeed. And I still fail to see where is the "winning" advantage. And a player such Aronian failed too.
Yesteday <Arcice&cie> showed the draw after 45.Rc4. One point of Black's defensive ressource is Nd5. The position is open but this N is more 4 than 3. My opinion is White's advantage is under one pawn up. |
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| Jun-03-07 | | sanyas: <Atking> No one is belittling Carlsen's acheivement; he is a great chess genius already and his performance in this match has been superb, perhaps the highlight of the event. But I do not believe that his play in this game, for a World Championship level contest, was very accurate. I think Carlsen was in trouble for most of the middlegame and was let off at the last moment by an oversight from Aronian, which was a good reward for his perseverance. Now that you mention it, I will revise my lines with an engine: I bleieve 37...f3 changed the material situation to Aronian's favour. Carlsen, despite being a pawn down, had something of a positional grip and with something as simple as 37...g8 the onus would have been on Aronian to find a way to make progress. 40.e5 looks better than the text. But 39...d3 had been played then 40.xa5 xd4+ would have followed. |
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| Jun-03-07 | | sanyas: 42.c5 d1 is not best, but anyway 43.d2 (But not 43.d2 h5 [and not your 43...xd2? 44.xd2 b6?? 45.xb6. I don't usually bring out the engines for analysis right off the bat, but I do use a chessboard!] 44.a3 f3 45.e2, when 45...f5 46.d2 e5 47.xd5+ cxd5 48.b5+ c8 49.e8+ c7 50.e7+ c8 51.f8+ c7 52.d6+ c8 53.b6 xb3+ and 45...b6 46.xb6  xb6 47.c3 f5 48.a6 d5 49.xc6 e7 50.a7+ f8 51.c8+ g7 52.d4+ f6 53.a5 e2 54.b4 xf2 55.xf2 xf2 56.b5 f3+ 57.a4 f1 58.b6 b1 59.c6 b4+ 60.a3 b5 are sample variations courtesy of my engine - if there is a win White will have to work for it.) |
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| Jun-03-07 | | sanyas: 43...c1 (43...f1 44.a8 a6 45.b8 f3 46.h5 b5 47.h6 is another way to lose) 44.a3 h1 45.b4 and even my engine agrees that Black is totally lost. After 42.c5 critical is 42...e4 43.d2 f3 44.a7 (not 44.e3 xe3 45.fxe3 xe3 46.g2 c3+ 47.b2 e2 48.e1 e5+ 49.a3 c5+ 50.a2 c1+ 51.b1 xb3) c7 45.e3 b4 46.d4 c3+ 47.b2 xa4+ 48.c2 xd4 49.xd4 b6 50.d3 f5 51.g4 a5 52.f3 f5 53.xb6+ xb6 54.g5, and anyone can see the win here, while I cannot see a defense for Black. |
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| Jun-03-07 | | sanyas: Are you saying that it's definitely a draw after 45.c4 d2+ 46.a3 c7? In that case, White should have tried 43.d2 e3 44.b4 c7 45.d6+ b6 (45...c8 46.xd5) 46.d8+ a6 (46...c7 47.d7; 46...a7 47.a5+ b8 48.d6+ c8 49.xd5) 47.a8+ b6 (47...a7 48.xa7+ xa7 49.c5+ b6 50.f2 looks winnable) 48.a5+ c7 (48..b5 49.xd5+ exd5 50.xb7+ xa5 51.b4#) 49.d6+ d7 (49...xd6 50.d8+ c5 51.xd5+ b4 52.d4+) 50.c2 c3+ 51.b2 xg3 52.xb7+ xd6 53.b4+ c7 54.xc3 xc3+ 55.xc3, which should be winning. |
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| Jun-03-07 | | sanyas: <2Towers> It is actually surprisingly difficult to win after 36.xg4. btw <Marmot PFL> seems to be right about a lot of stuff... Apologies for all the posting. |
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| Jun-03-07 | | Atking: <sanyas: <Atking> No one is belittling Carlsen's acheivement; he is a great chess genius already and his performance in this match has been superb, perhaps the highlight of the event.> Ok that's good enought. We are now on the same track. Your first post was with short arguments like <X definitively winning. > <Y better> <Z big error>. I will read yours analysis (I appreciate you did it this time properly)later with a chess board. Actually I'm again blindefolding and can't keep all in mind until the end. |
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