< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Jun-18-11|| ||eblunt: < sevenseaman: C) 20. Nd7 Nxd7 21, Bxh7+ Kh8 22. Bb1!+ Kg8 23. Rh8+ Kxh8 24. Qh5+ 1-0 next move. (Too much like a road accident.) |
You forget blacks queen check.
20. d7 a1+ 21 f2 xd7 22 xh7+ h8 and white no longer wins the Queen by Bb1+. I don't see a clear win from here myself. Black seems to have the resource f5! when the White Queen comes to h5
|Jun-18-11|| ||sevenseaman: <morfishine> <It is problems like this one that keeps me coming back, day after day. Of particular interest are the resources found by black to continue resistance. For example: 25...e5 and black queen covers <f7>>|
I'm more anxious to find out what keeps you going away. Its here and now - make all the mistakes you want; we are gonna be a team that fights a magical, mythical GM someday.
Just don't bother whether you solve or not, jesh keep track what goes on.
Thats a pretty good observation; <e5 and black queen covers f7> I nearly tripped into it; jesh in the nick of time saw the sinister long range Q connect.
Howdy? Here, a story;
A drunk returning to his pad very late, could not insert the key into the hole. A concerned early walker read the situation fast and said, 'Can I be of help'.
"No, I'll manage, but you jesh hold the damn houshe shtill".
|Jun-18-11|| ||Ghuzultyy: <eblunt>
(20...Qa1+ 21.Kf2 Nxd7? 21.Bxh7 Kh8 22.Bb1+ Kg8 23.Rh8+! Kxh8 24.Qh5+ Kg8 25.Qh7#)
|Jun-18-11|| ||sevenseaman: <eblunt>
<20. Nd7 Qa1+ 21 Kf2 Nxd7 22 Bxh7+ Kh8 and white no longer wins the Queen
by Bb1+. I don't see a clear win from here myself>
The Black Q is scarcely needed to be won, 22.Bb1 is mere form.
If Black interposes the check as you say;
20 Nd7 Qa1+ 22. Be1 Nxd7 23. BXh7+ Kh8 24. Bb1+ Kg8
25. Rh8+ Kxh8 26. Qh5+ Kg8 27. Qh7#. As you see all black moves are forced till the end.
|Jun-18-11|| ||eblunt: <Ghuzultyy, sevenseaman:> thanks, I missed that completely. I guess that's why I'm not a GM :)|
|Jun-18-11|| ||David2009: R Cifuentes vs Ribli, 1986 White 20?|
White has the 'shot' 20 Nd7! GOOT! seeing 20...Nxd7? 21 Bxh7+ Kh8 22 Bb1+ Kg8 23 Rh8+! and mates - even stronger than 23 Bxd7.
Relatively best seems 20...Ra8 or 20...Rc8 allowing Nxf6+ breaking up the King side with a strong attack, Black seeking
temporary respite in the centre. FInding the best Black defence isn't White's problem: all White needs to do is to ensure his
pseudo-sacrifice is sound.
I spent some time analysing and rejecting 20 Bxh7+?? Nxh7 21 Qh5 (the Vamypyre attack) refuted of course by the Van Helsing defence
Qb1+ which would defend adequately even if it wasn't check so my second thought 20 Kf2? preparing the Vampyre attack is equally futile.
Must rush - post and run, back to enjoy the kibitzes and the game this evening.
Right first move and idea.
click for larger view
Here's the puzzle position. Rewinding, I suspect Black played to "allow" the losing Bxh7+ sacrifice but missed Nd7. Back this evening time permitting.
|Jun-18-11|| ||patzer2: For today's Saturday puzzle, I saw 20. Nd7!! which leads to a quick mate in five, after 20...Nxd7 21. Bxh7+ Kh8 22. Bb1+ Kg8 23. Rh8+! Kxh8 24. Qh5+ Kg8 25. Qh7#, if Black takes the poisoned piece offer. |
More importantly, it decisively undermines the weakened castled position, resulting from Black's unfortunate mistake in going pawn grabbing with 18...Rxa2? when 19. Rxa2 Qxa2 20. Nd7!! leaves him a pawn up in a lost position. Instead, perhaps 18...g6 19. a3 b4 20. a4 Rfc8 21. b3 Rc3! (or 21...Bc5 ) would have turned the tables and given Black a strong advantage.
Although I got the first move 20. Nd7!! in our puzzle position, I did not see most of the followup and simply sat in amazement as I played it out on the computer to analyze White's precise followup for the remainder of the game.
Fritz 10 did find one slight improvement for white that may be worthy of note. Although 30. Qe5+! wins easily enough, the surprise alternative 30. Qd8! appears to be stronger as it wins quickly after 30...Qd8 Qa1+ 31. Bf1 Kb6 32. Qxd4+ Ka6 33. Rh3 .
As <abuzic> suggests, Black probably could have put up a bit more resistance with 24...Ke8!
Playing it out on Fritz 10, White appears to win but the followup is really difficult and gives him chances to go wrong and lose. For example, after 24...Ke8! 25. Bxb5+ Bc6! 26. Bxc6+ Rxc6 27. Rh8+ Kd7! 28. Qxf6 Kc7 29. Qxf7+ Kb6 30. h4! Qxb2 31. Ra8 Bc7!
click for larger view
to avoid losing white must sacrifice the exchange with 32. Ba5+! Kb7 33. Bxc7! Qc1+ 34. Kh2 Kxa8
click for larger view
with the strong Bishop move 35. Be5! White insures a winning advantage as play might continue 35...Qc4 36. Qf8+ Kb7 37. Qg7+ Ka6 38. Bxd4 Qd5 39. Qa7+ Kb5 40. Qb8+ Ka4 41. Qe8 Ka5 42. h5 Rc2
click for larger view
43. Qg6! Rc7 44. Be5 Rc1 45. h6 Qd1 46. h7 Qh1+ 47. Kg3 Qe1+ 48. Kg4 Qe2+ 49. Kg5! Qxg2+ 50. Kf6 Qa8 51. Qg8 Rc8
click for larger view
52. Bc7+! Kb5 53. Qxe6 Rxc7 (53... Rh8 54. f5 Qa1+ 55. Be5 Qh1 56. Qb3+ Kc5 57. Qe3+ Kc6 58. Qc3+ Kb5 59. Qd3+ Kb6 60. Qd6+ Kb5 61. Qd7+ Kc5 62. Qc7+ Kb5 63. Bh2 Qd5 64. Kg6 Rd8 65. Qe5 Kc6 66. Qxd5+ Kxd5 67. f6 Ke6 68. f7 Rh8 69. Bg1 Ke7 70. Bc5+ Kd8 71. Bd4 Rf8 72. h8=Q Rxh8 73. Bxh8 Ke7 74. Bf6+ Kd6 75. f8=Q+ ) 54. Qb3+ Kc5 55. Qc3+ Kb6 56. Qb4+ Ka6 (56... Kc6 57. Qe4+ ) 57. Qa4+ Kb7 58. Qxa8+ Kxa8 59. h8=Q+ .
|Jun-18-11|| ||Once: <patzer2> Excellent analysis there, sir. Enjoyed it very much.|
|Jun-18-11|| ||sevenseaman: <Once> Whot finesse! An artist of the 'round about'. <That's a nice-to-have advantage, but it's not the time for
the generously proportioned lady to be warming up her larynx.>|
You put riddles into riddles; plebeians like me crudely say 'an edge, until the fat lady sings'.
|Jun-18-11|| ||castledweller: those tricky guys at "headquarters" really try to keep us on our toes . . . . . |
It looks like the brainmeisters at CG tried to get us to commit to another B-sacrifice. Except it wouldn't work this time because the black Queen can assist on defense with Q-b1+. I like that they tried though - because in real games it is just the type of thing you have to double-check for before initiating an attack.
And conversely, I just won a game recently - knowing that I had my Queen in position to assist in defending (via a check). My opponent began an attack, but didn't see the move that allowed me to check his king and then scoop-up his attacking bishop - thereby ending his threat (and win the game).
This game would have been different if the white king had only been at f2 instead of g1, then of course the sacrifce would have worked!
|Jun-18-11|| ||KingV93: Got this one. Saw that the f6 was holding Blacks defense together and getting him to move puts White on the front foot. Nice to get Saturday correct :)|
|Jun-18-11|| ||Once: <sevenseaman> And you tell some damned fine jokes.|
There is a broken-down car by the roadside. The bonnet/hood is up and the driver is peering inside.
A drunk staggers by. "What's wrong with the car?" he asks the driver.
"Piston broke," was the reply.
"Me too," answered the drunk.
|Jun-18-11|| ||kevin86: After the black bishop falls,white should win easily-ahead a piece and a pawn.|
|Jun-18-11|| ||VincentL: "Difficult".
Black is two pawns up.
We want to play Bxh7+ and then after Kh8 continue Bb1+ winning the black queen.
The black knight on f6 prevents this. So letīs start 20. Nd7.
20....Nxd7 allows the sequence mentioned above.
Of course black has 20.....Qa1+. Here I am not sure of whiteīs best response. I donīt
like Be1, and Qe1 loses I think. So I think it must be 21. Kf2. If black continues 21....Nxd7. then
22. Bxf7+. Kh8 23. Bd3+ Kg8 24. Qh5 and Qh7/Qh8 mate.
So black must move the rook. Of the alternatives, I prefer 21.....Rc8. Now 22. Nxf6 gxf6
If (a) 23.... Kh8 24. Be4+ Kg8 25. Qg4+ Kf8 296. Bxb7, winning the bishop. This
ending should be won by white, at least at master level.
(b) 23....Kf8. Now I am not so sure. Perhaps 24. Be4 (24.... Bxe4 25. Rh8+ winning the black rook)
or even 24. f5.
I think there is more to this puzzle than I have seen - there may be a second key move somewhere
(presuming that 20 Nd7 is the correct start).
Letīs check the game and kibitzing.
|Jun-18-11|| ||VincentL: 22. Rxh7. Didnīt consider this.|
|Jun-18-11|| ||stst: A similar theme, K in corner, WB ready to sac Bxh7 (also with eye to take Q@a2 upon dis+ by R,) but this time got a N to guard. Doesn't look like a better alternative is out there.
So first try to sway the guarding N:
21.Bxh7 Kh8 (forced)
22.Bb1 dis+ Kg8
23.Bxa2 Nf6 (back to guard h7)
24.Bxe6 (sac rather to waste time) fxe6
26.Qxd6 Rd7 (not much left)
27.Qb8+ or Qc5 prep. to have Bb4 to lauch Qf8, etc. with overwhelming position.
IF(B):20...Rc8 (not taking WN, possible, but unlikely)
<IF in between, 22....Qa1+, 23.Kf2 Kf8, and the above 23... sets in, same result.>
|Jun-18-11|| ||stst: yeah, missed the Rc7 defense!!
<Indeed, Mostly, the "Difficulty" lies in figuring out the toughest defense, rather that for the offense!!>
|Jun-18-11|| ||scormus: Really tough one today, but thanks to <Jim, Once, patzer2, and others> I think its nailed. |
A very interesting puzzle which I was never going to get more than the first few moves of, the really tough stuff come after I finish. I dont think I can claim much credit for finding 20 Nd7.
Even some very resourceful defense from B, it just seems to much to expect a human player to withstand such a battering. Bit like boxing really
|Jun-18-11|| ||agb2002: White is two pawns down.
Black threatens ... Qxb2, Bxb5, Ne4.
The only defender of the black castle is the knight. Therefore, 20.Nd7 (20.Bxh7+ Nxh7 21.Qh5 Qb1+):
A) 20... Nxd7 21.Bxh7+ Kh8 22.B(b1-g6)+ Kg8 23.Rh8+ Kxh8 24.Qh5+ Kg8 25.Qh7#.
B) 20... h6 21.Nxf6+ Kh8 (21... gxf6 22.Qg4+ Kh8 23.Rxh6#) 22.Ng4 + - [N vs 2P] and the threat 23.Nxh6.
C) 20... Rd8 21.Nxf6+ gxf6 22.Rxh7
C.1) 22... f5 23.Qh5 Rd7 (or 23... Rf8, 23... e5) 24.Rh8+ Kg7 25.Qh6#.
C.2) 22... Kf8 23.Rxf7+ Kxf7 (else 24.Rxb7 or 24.Qh5) 24.Qh5+
C.2.a) 24... Ke7 25.Qh7+ Kf8 (25... Ke8 26.Bg6+ Kf8 27.Qf7#) 26.Bg6 e5 27.fxe5 Qa1+ 28.Kf2 Qxb2 (to avoid Bh6#) 29.Qf7#.
C.2.b) 24... Kf8 25.Qh8+ Kf(e)7 26.Qh7+ transposes to C.2.a.
C.2.c) 24... Kg7(8) 25.Qh7+ transposes to C.2.a.
C.3) 22... Qa1+ 23.Kf2 Qxb2 24.Qg4+ Kf8 25.Qg7+ Ke7(8) 26.Qxf7#.
D) 20... Rc8 21.Nxf6+ gxf6 22.Rxh7 Kf8 23.Qh5
D.1) 23... Rc7 24.Rh8+ Ke7 25.Bxb5 Bc6 26.Bxc6 Rxc6 27.Qh6 Kd7 28.Qxf6 with attack.
D.2) 23... e5 24.fxe5 and the DSB will go to b4 or g5 with probably decisive effects.
|Jun-18-11|| ||cyrilu: @ Stst: after 23....Rc7, there's no mate in five. White probably goes two pawn up with attack.|
|Jun-18-11|| ||WhiteRook48: funny thing was I ONLY saw 20 Nd7 and was looking for perpetual! Stupid me.|
|Jun-18-11|| ||sevenseaman: 19. Rxa2 is a very unclever move. It has the immediate effect of shifting the goalposts.|
47. b7 seemingly a pawn sac, comes as a technical expedient.
|Jun-19-11|| ||M.Hassan: "Very Difficult" White to play 20.?
White is 2 pawns down.
Two of White pieces are eyeing on h7 and Queen can join to make a deadly attack, but the the Black Knight is supporting this square. White can try to deviate this Knight by sacking his own Knight:
<If 20...Nxd7 21.Bxd7+ Kh8 22.Bb1+ Kg8
23.Bxa2 and Black Queen is lost>
White compensates his 2 pawns behind and presently the forces are equal with the White having better position in my opinion. The game may take long to the win. I have to check
|Jun-19-11|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: White is down two pawns, but the lifted rook on h3 gives white extra firepower to direct at the weak spot h7, while black's queen is rather far afield to be an optimal defender of the king. An h7 attack is clearly indicated, so my first thought was 20.Bh7+ Nxh7 21.Qh5. Clearly, I am not a great blitz tactician. After I realized that 21... Be4 kills that idea, I had a fresh look later and quickly realized that 20.Nd7! had to be the right way to go:|
A) 20... Nxd7? 21.Bxh7+ Kh8 22.Bg6+! Kg8 23.Rh8+! Kxh8 24.Qh5+ forces mate.
B) 20... Qa1+ 21.Kf2 Rd8 22.Nxf6+ gf 23.Rxh7! Kf8 24.Rxf7+!! Kxf7 25.Qh5+ Kd7 26.Qh7+ Kf8 27.Bg6 forces mate
B.1) 21... Nxd7 22.Bxh7+ forces mate as in A.
B.2) 21... (Non-rook move) allows 22.Nxf6+ gf 23.Qg4+ Kh8 24.Rxh7#
B.3) 21... Re8 22.Nxf6+ gf 23.Rxh7 Kf8 24.Qh5 Ke7 (Re7 25.Rh8+ Kg7 26.Qh6#) 25.Qxf7+ Kd8 26.Qd7#
B.4) 23... Rd7 24.Qg4+ Kf8 25.Rh8+ Ke7 26.Qg8 and black can't stop the dual threat of 26.Qe8+/# and Qf8+/#.
C) 20... Rd8 22.Nxf6+ gf 23.Rxh7 Kf8 24.Rxf7+!! Kxf7 25.Qh5+ Kd7 25.Qh7+ Kf8 26.Bg6 e5 (not available in line B) 27.fe! and black can't stop 27.Bh6+ forcing mate.
OK, I know there's more, but I want to try the Sunday puzzle now. Time for a quick review...
|Jun-19-11|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: Not quite there, but I had most of the key ideas.|
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