< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
|Aug-26-07|| ||OBIT: Wow, so that's why I could never beat this guy.|
|Aug-26-07|| ||TrueBlue: totally missed this one.
I saw 32 .. Nxd5 33.
Rxa8 Rxa8 34. Qxa8 Ne3+ 35. Kg1
and I don't see any advantage for black
my line was 32 .. Rxa5 33.
Qxa5 Nxd5 34. exd5 Rc8 35. Be1 Rc1 36. Rxc1 Qxc1 37. Nb3 Qc2 38. Nd4 Qd1
39. f4 d2 40. Nf3 dxe1=Q+ 41. Nxe1 Qxd5 42. Nf3
|Aug-27-07|| ||euripides: On the 'notes' question; when I checked the FIDE site I found that it is the use of notes that is prohibited. So if you make notes for future reference, rather than to assist your play at the board, you could argue this was legal. But I think it might be tricky to persuade an arbiter of the purity of your intentions. |
The recording of a move before it is played is specifically prohibited under another clause.
|Aug-27-07|| ||kevin86: A lot of misdirection in this puzzle. First open one line then attack down another. Finally sac the queen to end in a briilant mate aided by a lowly pawn.|
|May-17-11|| ||TheRavenPK: Metallica, the song off the the first album called Motorbreath:|
"Living and dying, laughing and crying
Once you have seen it you'll never be the same
Life in the fast lane is just how it seems
It's hot and it's heavy and dirty and mean"
I like that :)
|May-17-11|| ||erniecohen: <RandomVisitor: Rybka takes 3 minutes and 21 seconds to find the winning 32...Nxd5 at a depth of 18 ply.
Rybka gets hung up with the response 33.Rxa8, and takes a while to see that this move does not work for white.>|
That was in 2007, but I think it's pretty impressive that Houdini finds it in about 2 sec on a laptop.
|May-17-11|| ||kevin86: The pawn and bishop make this finish akin to a back rank mate.|
|May-17-11|| ||WhiteRook48: what happens if white plays 36 Ne2?|
|May-17-11|| ||mrsaturdaypants: He loses knight and queen for a rook and a pawn.|
|Nov-16-14|| ||M.Hassan: "Insane"
Black to play 32...?
Material are exactly equal.
It is to the advantage of Black if he can open the e file. Having a passed pawn on d6 and receiving extra help from the e Rook can make lots of changes there. At first I thought to open the file by 32...Nxd5 33.exd5 but noticed that the Knight is supporting the Rooks and went for ...f5
33.exf5 Be3 threatening mate on f2
Black is slightly better
If on move 34, White Queen comes to the battlefield to stop the mate:
Black is now way better.
|Nov-16-14|| ||amurph64: Very complex position, I saw that Nxd5 would open up the e-file but missed Rac8, this was the cherry on the cake, overwhelming for black after this.|
|Nov-16-14|| ||gofer: I can see an easy way for white to dislodge Qd2 with 33 Be1 at which point
black loses Pd3 or repeats into a perpetual with 33 ... Qe3 34 Bf2 Qd2 etc.|
So that makes me think that 32 ... f5 is too slow. So how about something
<32 ... Nxd5!>
Ignoring the threat of Ne3+ is not a good idea...
33 Be1 Ne3+
34 Kg1 Qxg2#
33 Rxa8 Rxa8
34 Qxa8 Ne3+
35 Kg1 Nd1 mating
33 Qb2 Qxb2
34 Rxb2 Ne3+
35 Bxe3 Bxe3 (Ke1/Kg1 Nc4 )
36 Nc6 Bb6
37 Rxa8 Rxa8
38 Ke1 Be3
39 Rb1 Ra2 mating
But taking the knight is even worse!
32 exd5 Re2
33 Nxe2 dxe2+
34 Kg1 Qd1+
35 Be1! Qxc1 (36 Qa1 Qxa1 )
36 Qc3 Be3+
37 Kh1 Rc8
38 Qa1 Rc1
39 Qxb1 Rxc1
40 g3 Rxe1+
41 Kg2 Rg1+
42 Kg3 e1=Q
33 Qb2 Rxf2+
34 Kg1 Rxg2+
35 Kf1 Rf2+
36 Kg1 Qxb2
37 Rxb2 Rxb2
38 Rxa8 Be3+
So am I right???
Nope, I missed the correct continuation. Rac8 is far better than
Re2. Re2 can wait a move or two. Rac8 saves the rook, increases
the attacking lines to the king and stops the white queen coming
to c1 or c3 to help out...
|Nov-16-14|| ||Morten: Patzer 2, Just out of curiosity: Why is 32 -,Nxd5 a sham sacrifice? Seems to me it is a genuine sacrifice (material is not immediately regained) but a winning one.|
|Nov-16-14|| ||Once: Very impressive attack.
The books tell us to double rooks on open files or files that are likely to be open. And that is normally great advice.
But there is a little caveat that needs to be added to the general rule. The open file needs to be one that you can actually do something with. Rooks need open files so that they can invade enemy territory and then turn left or right to make mischief.
Control of an open file is not particularly useful if there is nothing juicy at the other end of it.
At the start of the puzzle, it looks as if all the action is going to happen on the a file:
click for larger view
Apart from the advanced queen and pawn, the black pieces seem to be mostly defensive. Black is just about contesting the a file and holding on to the weak b5 pawn.
But looks can be deceiving. Sure, black has a strong grip on the a file, but what is he going to do with it? If the Ra8 wanders away there is nothing off-white on the file waiting to be captured.
White can trundle up the a file and then turn right, but it is going to take a long time for him to get the black king.
It turns out that the important files are the c and e files. From here the black rooks can threaten to invade on the second and first ranks. The white king is much more vulnerable to rook invasion than his black counterpart.
Hence 32...Nxd5 opening both the e and c files.
From there it quickly descends into complications that are way beyond my pay grade. Good insane puzzle, and instructive for the effective use of open files.
|Nov-16-14|| ||morfishine: We all have our different metrics, which for the most are based on what we are trying to accomplish and if we've derived any benefit from the exercise. Here, I'm happy to have found <32...Nxd5> and will now spend the rest of the day smoking chicken, beef & pork ribs, watching football and consuming beer|
|Nov-16-14|| ||Mendrys: I guessed 32...Nxd5 but can't really claim any credit. Just to see how things have come in response to the posts 7 years ago:|
<MostlyAverageJoe: <RV> Well, to keep the record complete, Hiarcs11.2MP found it after 13 plies (82 seconds runtime). Much easier puzzle (for software) than 2 days ago. It initially considered 33.Rxa8 to be the best response as well, but only for about 10-15 seconds.>
Houdini found it in less than 2 seconds.
|Nov-16-14|| ||Penguincw: I didn't even get the first move. :( On the bright side, tomorrow's Monday!|
|Nov-16-14|| ||Jimfromprovidence: I was completely fooled by this one. I thought white had many outs.|
White cannot even afford to play a move like 34 g3, giving his king an escape square.
click for larger view
Black has 34...Be3, seeing 35 Bxe3 Rxe3.
click for larger view
The threat is 36...Rc2! 37 Nxc2 dxc2. I cannot find a way for white to stop it.
|Nov-16-14|| ||thegoodanarchist: Tisdall shows that the Benoni ain't no baloney!|
|Nov-16-14|| ||chrisowen: Wigs swipe give spark at horse c6 piece a chance
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|Nov-17-14|| ||patzer2: <Morten: Patzer 2, Just out of curiosity: Why is 32 -,Nxd5 a sham sacrifice? Seems to me it is a genuine sacrifice (material is not immediately regained) but a winning one.> Apparently, you are familiar with Spielman's "Art of Sacrifice in Chess" in which he classifies a "real sacrifice" as one in which the "amount of time required to recover the material is not clear."|
However, Spielman also goes on to state that as opposed to a "real sacrifice" the "sham sacrifice involves no risk" as "the player either recovers the invested material with advantage" or "mates."
I'm sure there's a point at which the distinction between Spielman's "real" and "sham" sacrifice is blurred, and maybe that's the case here.
However, in this game I judged that Black saw the sacrifice 32...Rxd5! would lead to decisive material advantage or mate. So, I judged it was in Spielman's "sham sacrifice" category.
P.S.: It could be that Black did not see the winning advantage computer programs find at 16 to 18 depth after 32...Nxd5!, and thus had no idea as to whether he would recover the material or secure a decisive advantage. In which case (i.e. human player playing a promising sacrifice without calculating it through to a winning advantage), this could be considered a "sham sacrifice.
|Nov-17-14|| ||agb2002: I finally didn't find the time to study this puzzle.|
|Nov-17-14|| ||patzer2: The main point of 32...Nxd5!! 33. exd5 Rc8! is that the threats 34. Re2! or 34. Rc2! give Black a clearly decisive advantage.|
|Nov-17-14|| ||Cheapo by the Dozen: Total whiff. I kept trying to get rid of the d4 knight, and didn't see that there was a way to mate despite not doing so.|
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