< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 27 OF 27 ·
|Sep-16-07|| ||Ezzy: Kramnik played on in the endgame not just because Anand had to defend accurately in the endgame, but because Anand has misplayed this exact ending before - ironically in the same opening|
Leko vs Anand, 2003
Anand must have done lots of endgame study after this loss. It certainly served him well today.
So it seems Anand is having his problems dealing with the Petrov. Back to the Petrov drawing board for him it seems.
Great finish to the game by two legends of the game.
|Sep-16-07|| ||you vs yourself: <but because Anand has misplayed this exact ending before> And this rook endgame too: Kasparov vs Anand, 2003 I think this is also the game they're refering to in the twic link I posted.|
|Sep-16-07|| ||sheaf: kramnik was better prepared in petroff than anand, not much can be said since there arent any obvious missed wins anywhere. good game and a just result.|
|Sep-16-07|| ||Red October: < acirce: But guess what, of course some people complained because Kramnik <did> play it out to the end. What's he supposed to do to please people? > probably play the Kings Gambit... shudder to think what would happen if that ends in a draw ;-p|
|Sep-16-07|| ||Ulhumbrus: Anand appears to have played this ending well. Here is one question and one answer to the question on Rook and pawn endings, which may be useful to ordinary players. The question is: Given that Rook and pawn endgame technique consists partly of incomprehensible moves, how may one play incomprehensible moves? One answer is : Learn to play something easier first.|
|Sep-16-07|| ||jamesmaskell: "What's he supposed to do to please people?"
People only demand that Kramnik sacrifice three pieces per game playing blindfold at a rate of 10 seconds per move whilst simultaneously reciting War and Peace, backwards. He is the World Champion after all!
|Sep-16-07|| ||euripides: The ending where one side is up by an outside passed pawn and has a rook in front of the pawn is often described as 'drawn' in the books but is very difficult in practice. The f5 pawn's weakness is just the sort of wrinkle that can easily change the result. |
I wonder how much the players saw when they went into this endgame on move 30.
|Sep-16-07|| ||Marmot PFL: I wonder why Anand even went into this ending. 22.Bxc7 looks tempting but it shouldn't take a player of his ability very long to see that it actually favors black. To expect Kramnik to allow something like that if it was good is so unlikely that Anand should have been much more careful. Both games with white he was somewhat lucky to draw.|
|Sep-16-07|| ||acirce: <"I was lucky to get my preparation on the board," said Kramnik. "Up to 26...f6 it was all preparation and surprisingly then it is Black who is playing for a win. I couldn't see anything better than what Vishy did - he lost a pawn but the rook endgame he reached should be a draw. If my pawn was on f7 in this endgame there would be certain practical winning chances but on f6 it is much worse.|
"Still, there is no reason to be dissatisfied - Black against Vishy is not a dream - it is one of the toughest games in the modern chess world."
Asked why the game had continued until stalemate, Kramnik replied, "I wanted to show the stalemate variation to the spectators - but of course both players had seen [the idea] 20 moves earlier."
Anand was torn between annoyance at emerging so poorly from the opening and satisfaction at holding the endgame.
"Of course it was not my dream to defend a bad endgame straight from the opening. In the ending I went through stages of thinking it was an easy draw and then panicking. However once I played h4 I was very happy and sure it would be drawn. I even had the small satisfaction of forcing him to move his king all the way to b8 before he could move up the board.">
|Sep-16-07|| ||euripides: <acirce> thanks. If they only saw the stalemate 20 moves earlier then perhaps Anand was a bit lucky, as without it I guess the whole endgame would be lost. He needed to see it 35 moves before :-)|
|Sep-16-07|| ||znprdx: <Sep-15-07 timhortons: fischer didnt have any single game done publicly in fischer random...what force he had to mutilate the royal game?its up to the public to accept frc or not in the future> As previously posted
Robert James Fischer [page 736]|
On the other hand I wish people would stop crediting him with the concept of a randomized opening array. It originated with Maxwell Lawrence (of Brooklyn) as the ineptly named 'Transcendental Chess' -(1980's) 'transformational' better - which technically goes back to the '60's boardgame "Strateego"...Another point: FischerRandom 960 is NOT random...it specifies the precise permissable Chess piece arrays which respect the laws of Chess...unlike in TC castling is always possible.
One of the reasons (aside from being a patzer) I did not persue Chess beyond the occassional tournament or Club round robin - is that I found myself losing to a move in an opening which I'd not come across. The point being that it did not originate with my opponent. We are already off on the wrong path trying to formulate a data base for what could breathe some life into the sterility of rote opening theory.
|Sep-16-07|| ||euripides: Perhaps Anand didn't need the stalemate. According to Marin on chessbase on 54.Kh2 <Actually, this move is not forced. decades ago, Kholmov has proven that even without the f5-pawn White can hold a draw. The only winning chance for Black is to create a passed pawn on the f-file, but this is impossible in case of accurate defence from White.>|
Marin also suggests 38...h4, which I wondered about during the game. I guess White should take the pawn when if Black later plays Kxh5 White can temporarily cut the king off with Rxg7.
|Sep-16-07|| ||Ezzy: <Anand - I even had the small satisfaction of forcing him to move his king all the way to b8 before he could move up the board.">|
Great quote by Anand, Shows his sense of humour is still intact, and is still feeling relaxed .
|Sep-16-07|| ||znprdx: <Sep-15-07 znprdx: Against most players I've met 18.Qd2 followed by Bd3 and I'd coast to a win but I don't know this opening well enough to see how Black can do much except wait to be steamrolled. Is this still all "book"?> I posted this "live" yesterday - I've yet to have an answer - I mean if Qc2 was a novelty - what was the point of it - surely not to exchange queens versus the World Champion while having White: up tempo, up game......|
|Sep-16-07|| ||acirce: <According to Marin on chessbase on 54.Kh2 <Actually, this move is not forced. decades ago, Kholmov has proven that even without the f5-pawn White can hold a draw. The only winning chance for Black is to create a passed pawn on the f-file, but this is impossible in case of accurate defence from White.>>|
Now <that> is a surprise, and shows I haven't done my homework because this is indeed in Dvoretsky and probably most of the best modern endgame manuals.
He gives this position (Kholmov, 1983):
click for larger view
This is of course Anand-Kramnik as it could have been but with colours reversed. Kramnik still had his pawn on g7 but that can hardly matter.
<Here again, two extra pawns are not sufficient for a win. Black can easily prevent creation of a passed f-pawn.
The threat is 2.g4 Ra4+ (2..hxg4 3.Kxg4 4.h4-h5 ) 4.Kg3 hxg4 5.f4!, followed by h4-h5. The immediate 1.g4 hxg4 2.fxg4 leads to an obvious draw. Black need only remember to harass his opponents with checks from the rear when the white king comes to the 6th rank, otherwise a winning pawn endgame can arise.
1..Ra4+! 2.Ke3 Ra3+ 3.Kf2 Ra2+ 4.Kg1 Ra1+! (the simplest, although 4..Ra3 5.g4 hxg4 6.f4! Kh7! also holds) 5.Kg2 Ra2+ 6.Kh3 Ra3
(6..Ra4 7.f4 Ra3 is also good.)
7.f4 Ra2 8.g4 Ra3+
The king can only escape from the checks by approaching the rook, but this is too dangerous: Black takes on g4 and his g-pawn rushes to the promotion square.>
|Sep-16-07|| ||pinakin8: Anand could have done better with taking the bishop with rook inplace of a the pawn on move 24.|
|Sep-16-07|| ||ttr2121: I should expect that 1. e4 will disappear from the highest echelons of the game. It seems that Kramnnik and Gelfand are showing that black has the draw in hand against it. And that's fabulous because now every game at the championship level can be either a Slav or a Queens Indian. Wow! That's sooooooooo cool. In fact, who needs the Slav? Let's just stipulate that every game at the 2700+ level must be a Queen's Indian. Yeah, baby! Now THAT'S chess!|
|Sep-17-07|| ||Resignation Trap: Kramnik thinks about his first move before whipping out his home analysis in rapid-fire action: http://www.chesspro.ru/_images/mate... .|
|Sep-23-07|| ||euripides: I find that Kramnik has been here before. This example has made it into the textbooks: |
Kramnik vs Timman, 1999
|Sep-23-07|| ||notyetagm: <acirce> has me on his ignore list so someone please tell him that I said thanks for the nice explanation of this endgame that he gave above.|
|Sep-23-07|| ||KingG: <<acirce> has me on his ignore list so someone please tell him that I said thanks for the nice explanation of this endgame that he gave above.>|
Why does he have you on his ignore list? Is it for your Kramnik bashing?
|Sep-23-07|| ||notyetagm: <KingG: <<acirce> has me on his ignore list so someone please tell him that I said thanks for the nice explanation of this endgame that he gave above.>
Why does he have you on his ignore list? Is it for your Kramnik bashing?>|
Your guess is as good as mine but that's my guess as well. :-)
|Sep-23-07|| ||DCP23: <notyetagm: <KingG: <<acirce> has me on his ignore list so someone please tell him that I said thanks for the nice explanation of this endgame that he gave above.> Why does he have you on his ignore list? Is it for your Kramnik bashing?>
Your guess is as good as mine but that's my guess as well. :-)>|
I have long suspected that premium members enjoy the luxury of having an unlimited ignore list. Mine is limited to 40 entries, and believe it or not it's inadequate on this site. There're so many trolls, idiots, haters, and bigots here that I just can't afford to waste precious slots on decent kibitzers just because of 'Kramnik bashing' :)
|Oct-07-07|| ||notyetagm: In this recent World Championship game White (Anand) got a passed pawn on e7, as shown below.|
Position after 24 d6xe7:
click for larger view
Marin annotated that this advanced passed e7-pawn would probably win the game for White if the queens were still on the board. But without the queens on, Black was able to round up this pawn rather easily, leaving White to defend a difficult endgame.
Now consider Gligoric vs Matulovic, 1967, after 40 c4xe6+.
Position after 40 c4xe6+:
click for larger view
With the queens still on the board, White (Gligoric) is able to combine the power of this pawn with threats to the Black king, winning in fact by a forced mate.
I think that this fragment is a great example of exactly what Marin was saying about the power of advanced passed pawns with queens on and their weakness with queens off.
|Oct-07-07|| ||crazy monk: I don't like the book move: the idea of 6.Bd3 then ...11.a3 this give black the initiative I think.|
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