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Sep-19-07
 | | euripides: Both 24.Qg4 and 24.Bxh6 were interesting options. 24.Be3 gives up the attack and I think Kramnik immeditely exchanged and offered the draw, perhaps out of relief ? At the end White needs to organise rook exchanges on the d file without dropping e4 or b2 - unless he can sac b2 for king's side counterplay. It doesn't look trivial but maybe both players saw a simple way to do it. |
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Sep-19-07
 | | Ulhumbrus: 24 Be3 agrees to a draw. It seems that Leko does not get a winning attack by 24 Bxh6 eg 24 Bxh6 gxh6 25 Qg4+ Kf8 26 Rh1 Rd7 27 Raf1 Qe2! and Black wins instead of White. There may be a lesson there. Perhaps Steinitz would say that White needs an advantage for the attack to succeed. Can one understand this more clearly? If White needs an advantage for his attack to prevail, perhaps an advantage consists of just those ingredients which would cause the attack to succeed or the defence to fail. |
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Sep-19-07
| | Ulhumbrus: 24 Be3 agrees to a draw. It seems that Leko does not get a winning attack by 24 Bxh6 eg 24 Bxh6 gxh6 25 Qg4+ Kf8 26 Rh1 Rd2 27 Raf1 Qe2! and Black wins instead of White. There may be a lesson there. Perhaps Steinitz would say that White needs an advantage for the attack to succeed. Can one understand this more clearly? If White needs an advantage for his attack to prevail, perhaps an advantage consists of just those ingredients which would cause the attack to succeed or the defence to fail. |
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Sep-19-07
 | | tpstar: "NO BLOOD BETWEEN KRAMNIK AND LEKO"
"World defending champion Vladimir Kramnik keeps its scoresheet without blemish; this afternoon, he got a draw from Hungarian grand master Peter Leko, in a brief game of just 24 movements. Thus, Kramnik reaches 3 points at the standing, leading the eight contenders for the World Championship." http://www.chessmexico.com/es/index... Notice the nameplate lists their rating. I don't remember seeing that before. |
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Sep-19-07
| | Resignation Trap: These two have played each other over 80 times, so it's hard to believe that they can hide any secrets from each other anymore. Anyway, here's a photo taken at the start of the game: http://www.chesspro.ru/_images/mate... . |
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Sep-19-07
 | | acirce: Lékó: <"In the Russian [Petroff] all the lines are practically by force worked out till the draw."> Surprisingly, Kramnik said he had actually prepared "very carefully" against the Giuoco Piano already in Dortmund, including the whole idea with ..Qe6 and ..Ne7 followed by ..c6 and ..d5, suggesting it might refute White's entire setup. Kind of getting scary. As Mig Greengard says: <If he has time to book up on the Giuoco Piano it's time for everyone else to just give up. Yikes.> |
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Sep-20-07
| | acirce: After 24.Qg4 Kf8 I can't find any way to get an attack going. I think 24.Be3 was forced or White would just be worse. |
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Sep-20-07
| | euripides: <acirce> http://www.chesspro.ru/chessonline/... suggests <24.Qg4 Kf8> 25.Rh1 Rd7 26.Bxh6 with a line where White gets three pawns for the piece - I haven't analysed it but it looks quite promising. |
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| Sep-20-07 | | KamikazeAttack: <Surprisingly, Kramnik said he had actually prepared "very carefully" against the Giuoco Piano already in Dortmund, including the whole idea with ..Qe6 and ..Ne7 followed by ..c6 and ..d5, suggesting it might refute White's entire setup.> Not surprised. Kramnik must be ready for all the lines that white might u to avoid the Petroff. |
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Sep-20-07
| | acirce: Maybe not a surprise exactly, but it's fascinating to note that he spends so much time even on rare and tame lines like this one and does it so deeply. He certainly won't be taken off guard easily. But of course Lékó's words is kind of a sign of the times; I suppose it's just a matter of time before someone tries the King's Gambit ... |
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Sep-20-07
| | acirce: <25.Rh1 Rd7 26.Bxh6 with a line where White gets three pawns for the piece - I haven't analysed it but it looks quite promising.> Thanks, it is interesting indeed. They seem to think it's unclear. Black has many alternatives to 25..Rd7; Rybka is so far insisting on 0.00 on many of them. |
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Sep-20-07
| | KingG: <Lékó: "In the Russian [Petroff] all the lines are practically by force worked out till the draw."> I'm a bit surprised that Leko(and Anand for that matter) hasn't more fully incorporated 1.d4 into his repertoire. He has played it a from time to time over the past few years with what seems to me to be reasonable success, so why not try it more often, especially against Petrov specialists like Kramnik? If the Petrov almost is virtually a forced draw, then 1.e4 is dead at the highest level, although to be honest it has been clear for a while now that it has been facing serious difficulties. Without even mentioning the Petrov or the Marshall, it's not clear to me that White has much advantage in certain ...Bc5 lines of the Ruy. The Italian Game also gives White nothing, and at the very least the Nf3 variation of the King's Gambit has many extremely drawish lines. I'm less sure about the Bishop's Gambit, but if the top players started seriously analysing it, then i'm sure it would quickly be analysed to a draw. In fact, Kramnik has probably analysed the KG as well, and so must have some good lines prepared against it. The exclusive 1.e4 player may now become extinct at the highest level. |
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| Sep-20-07 | | KamikazeAttack: <...Bc5 lines of the Ruy> I hate it when facing this. That Bc5 is always a pain. Talking f gambits, no one in their right minds would try KG or Evans against a player of Kramnik's strength, that would be suicidal. |
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Sep-20-07
| | euripides: Kasparov vs Anand, 1995 |
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Sep-20-07
| | KingG: <no one in their right minds would try KG or Evans against a player of Kramnik's strength, that would be suicidal.> I wouldn't say it was suicidal, but i certainy don't think White can hope for any advantage. Of course, simply reaching an 'unclear' position would be a success, but i'm not even sure if that is possible. |
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| Sep-20-07 | | Akavall: Is Evans Gambit in the same legue of 'unsoundness' as King's Gambit? I was under impression that Evans Gambit was border-line sound. |
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Sep-20-07
| | acirce: I was not too serious about the King's Gambit, and I think any White player trying that against Kramnik should be happy just to survive with a playable position, but possibly someone like Morozevich might try it in a situation where it doesn't really matter. The Evans Gambit is better I agree. How do you reach that though if 2.Bc4 Nf6 like here? As for Lékó and 1.d4, everybody remembers Brissago, of course. |
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Sep-20-07
| | KingG: <As for Lékó and 1.d4, everybody remembers Brissago, of course.>
Considering this was the first time Leko tried 1.d4, and he scored +1 against Kramnik, wouldn't that indicate that he should perhaps try it more often, or even perhaps switch to it permanantly? It's not as if Leko is that impressive in sharp positions anyway. |
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Sep-20-07
| | acirce: <Considering this was the first time Leko tried 1.d4, and he scored +1 against Kramnik, wouldn't that indicate that he should perhaps try it more often> Yes, exactly. |
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Sep-20-07
| | acirce: Rybka maintains a 0.00 eval after 24.Qg4 Kf8 25.Rh1 Rd7, 25..Qf7, 25..Re7 and 25..Qg8 at depth=22. I haven't taken a deeper look. |
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Sep-20-07
| | GreenArrow: 24.Rh1 looks stronger than 24.Be3 as Bxh6 becomes a real threat, but in fact it leads to a draw after 24.Rh1 Re7! 25.Bxh6 gxh6 26.Rxh6 Rf7 27.Qg4+ Kf8 28.Rh8+ Ke7 29.Rxd8 Kxd8 30. Qg8+ Kc7/e7 31.Rd1 = |
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| Sep-21-07 | | Akavall: If the goal is to play a gambit against Kramnik, one doesn't have to play King's Gambit, since there is still Cochrane in Petrov, which is probably still more sound than King's Gambit. |
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Sep-26-07
 | | beenthere240: You can't get to an Evans if black plays the Petrov alas, and black doesn't have to accept the Cochrane to get a good game. [1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nxe4 4. Nc3 Nc6 5. Nxe4 d5.]
However, I suppose you could play a sort of Scotch gambit. [1. e4 e5 2. d4 ed 3. Nf3] |
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Sep-26-07
| | acirce: The Cochrane is 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nxf7??! as in Topalov vs Kramnik, 1999 It is not sound, but a Petroff player does best to be well prepared for it. |
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Sep-26-07
| | Resignation Trap: I think that <beenthere240> means the Boden-Kieseritzky Gambit: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nxe4 4.Nc3 Nxc3 5.dxc3. I doubt if that's sound, either, <especially> at this level. |
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