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Dmitry Jakovenko vs Vladimir Kramnik
Tal Memorial (2007)  ·  Russian Game: Classical Attack. Jaenisch Variation (C42)  ·  1/2-1/2
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 8 OF 8 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-17-07  znprdx: <HOTDOG: it seems almost a reciprocal zugzwang> that is a beautiful notion! However Bishop uber Springer - Aha Krammik got cold feet! The pundits will go nuts on this one
Nov-17-07  MorphysMojo: Nothing to be ashamed of Jak, Kramnik may have to re-think the early pawn grab variations, unless he truly went wrong later.
Nov-17-07  paul1959: After f3-f3 there is no Qe4 and it is not easy to get the white pieces out of the center
Nov-17-07  Strongest Force: Jaco had him by the b***s but traded too many pieces.
Nov-17-07  newton296: just the other day chucky was up a pawn in an endgame just like this. he had Q + B vs Q+ B and couldn't avoid perp + and it drew.

This endgame is probably about the same . Q+B vs Q+N . just a knight instead of B .

I'm not sure but I think the Q and knight are stronger together then B and Q . at least when attacking the enemy king Q and knight are better. here it looks like the B is stronger then N with pawns on both sides.

Nov-17-07  swissfed: Expected result.
Nov-17-07  cheski: 28.Rf1 instead of 28.Rxe8+ might have been a little better for White:

28.Rf1 Re2 29.c4 Qe8 30.Bf4 Re1 31.Bd2 Rxf1+ 32.Kxf1 h5

(evens at 20 ply)


click for larger view

Although in the end it didn't matter.

Jakovenko proved to be a worthy opponent with sound insight into the Petroff. I thoroughly enjoyed this game. Thanks CG.

Nov-17-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <I'm not sure but I think the Q and knight are stronger together then B and Q .>

So said Capablanca, but the statistics don't support him.

Nov-17-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: Playing black, would Tal have taken a draw?
Nov-17-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <al wazir: Playing black, would Tal have taken a draw?> Certainly. White centralized queen and the windy position of the Black king offset the extra pawn.

For instance, Black can not play 29...Qe4 (or 30...Qe4) because of 30.Qf7 (31.Qf7).

Nov-17-07  scholes: Is king gambitt refuted ? Why doesn't some one try it against kramnik . I believe forcing someone into type of play other doesn't wants to play can be very big advanatage sometimes. And besides that kramnik is a 2650 black player based on his 2007 results .So why its not worth taking a chance .

Every one allows him a petroff draw with black and catalan win with white . Its ok if you want to challenge someone's preparation in line you know he will play .But it is getting stupid what people are playing against kramnik this year .<If you fear him why play catalan as black and if you don't fear him why play petroff as white ?>

Nov-17-07  cotdt: King's Gambit has been refuted. This is very clear in Timmerman vs. Umansky.
Nov-17-07  Open Defence: < And besides that kramnik is a 2650 black player based on his 2007 results > and how does one come up with that conclusion ? is that his performance rating with Black ?
Nov-17-07  chessmoron: <OD> I'm sure there is a system that calculates it. Put the avg of the opponents and the score that Kramnik has and viola the performance rating.

<is that his performance rating with Black ?> Yes. He has a 2950 performance when he plays white in 2007.

Nov-17-07  Open Defence: hmmm what a disproportionate score.. does that point to White actually having a significant advantage and maybe the rest dont know how to exploit it ?
Nov-17-07  cotdt: <does that point to White actually having a significant advantage and maybe the rest dont know how to exploit it ?> No, for example Topalov's rating as black and as white is about the same.
Nov-17-07  chessmoron: The only person which I think can exploit Kramnik playing Black is Topalov. That's why Kramnik was somewhat hesitant to call out "draw" in the early stage of each game.
Nov-17-07  cannibal: << And besides that kramnik is a 2650 black player based on his 2007 results > and how does one come up with that conclusion ? is that his performance rating with Black ?>

No, it's not. I calculated it just yesterday, and posted it on another page: his performance rating 2007 with black is slightly above 2700.

Nov-17-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: <Gypsy: <Playing black, would Tal have taken a draw?> Certainly. White centralized queen and the windy position of the Black king offset the extra pawn.

For instance, Black can not play 29...Qe4>

Why would black play ...Qe4 rather than ...Qd7, which immobilizes both B and Q? Black has the outside passed pawn, calling out "Push me! Push me!"

Nov-17-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <Is king gambitt refuted ? Why doesn't some one try it against kramnik. I believe forcing someone into type of play other doesn't wants to play can be very big advanatage sometimes.>

Why do you think Kramnik doesn't want to play with an extra pawn?

<If you fear him why play catalan as black?>

Ask Alekseev.

<if you don't fear him why play petroff as white ?>

The main alternatives are 2. Nc3 and 2. f4, and most masters think those are worse.

<And besides that kramnik is a 2650 black player based on his 2007 results .So why its not worth taking a chance . >

This is silly. He's a 2700 player with Black because he tries to draw, and almost always succeeds. But it's not as if his calculating ability or positional sense declines to that of "only " a 2700 player when he has the black pieces. His opponents know that, so they don't take foolish risks.

Nov-17-07  cannibal: <al wazir>
I may be wrong, but after Qd7 Bf4, black can hardly accept the exchange of queens because the white passer would cost the knight (it can't contrl d7 in time). Maybe his own passers could still dominate the bishop, but after a quick look I don't yet see how.
Nov-17-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  acirce: Pretty interesting - in this typical Petrov position, now and then occurring in games at the very highest level in the latest years:


click for larger view

(black to move)

nobody, including Kramnik (who's had it twice), has dared to simply snatch the a-pawn until now. 19..Bf6 was always played in games like:

Leko vs Kramnik, 2007
Leko vs Bacrot, 2006
Svidler vs Kramnik, 2006
Kasparov vs Anand, 2005
Judit Polgar vs Anand, 2005
Akopian vs Gelfand, 2004
Leko vs Anand, 2003

And yet it seems like it can be done without getting into trouble.

Nov-17-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: <cannibal>: You're right, ...Qd7 doesn't immobilize anything. I overlooked the advance of the white d-P after the Q exchange.

A better plan would be to play ...Kg7, protecting against Qf7+, and then ...Qe4. I still like black's chances because of the passed a-P.

Nov-18-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <acirce: Pretty interesting - in this typical Petrov position, now and then occurring in games at the very highest level in the latest years... nobody, including Kramnik (who's had it twice), has dared to simply snatch the a-pawn until now.>

There was, however, the game Grischuk vs Gelfand, 2006 from last year's Tal Memorial, where Black snatched the a-pawn after 19.Re3 instead of d5, with some similarity to this game afterwards (the sequence Ng5-g6-Ne4-Be7, and later f5 as a defensive resource for Black).

Nov-19-07  rover: <Open Defence: hmmm what a disproportionate score..>

I'm sure some of it is just variance but also Kramnik is probably spending less time to prepare as black as Topalov does. If he tried harder with black his preparation with white would suffer.

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