< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
|Nov-09-08|| ||natrix75: nice!|
|Nov-09-08|| ||sleepyirv: I was so optimistic for 19.g6 to the point that I didn't consider Nxg7.|
|Nov-09-08|| ||NakoSonorense: Not even close.|
|Nov-09-08|| ||whitebeach: <sleepyirv> Yeah, me too. Fell in love with g6 and started going over the ramifications. It still might win, but in any event, I never even looked at Nxg7. Not that merely finding this very strong move solves the whole thing. This is one of the most complicated puzzles, or even positions, I think, that I've encountered on this site, and that's saying something.|
|Nov-09-08|| ||Terry McCracken: 19. Nxg7 is rather obvious, a theme in similar positions. Black played a rather dubious opening line. I think he could have avoided this virtual "helpmate" imho. After Black's 15 or 16 moves he looks pretty lost.|
It's a book line to almost move 19 and I think it needs to be scrapped by the Black side.
Still, a very pretty finish by White.
|Nov-09-08|| ||Oginschile: True enough, I actually looked at Nxg7 rather extensively because it just felt like there should be something there (puzzle-play). I didn't come close to the game continuation. |
Very nicely played.
|Nov-09-08|| ||dzechiel: White to move (19?). Material even. "Insane."
<sigh>, these "insane" positions make my head hurt. What strikes me about the position is that the white knight on f5 and bishop on d5 are forked by a pawn that could not have just moved there! I look forward to playing through this game and seeing how this position came to be.
I see at least two candidate moves for white:
- 19 Nxg7
- 19 g6
Both of these seem to produce good things for white. The problem is that black has so many moves to choose from when putting up a defence.
I'm going to predict that it is one of these moves, probably the capture of the g-pawn, but that's all I got tonight.
Time to check.
|Nov-09-08|| ||dzechiel: Wow. Most impressive. The pawn never "forked" the two white minor pieces, they forked themselves!|
A very pretty ending by Fedorov.
|Nov-09-08|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Believe it or not, I was already familiar with this game. |
A few years ago, I decided to write a book on the Velimirovic Attack in the Sozin Sicilian.
I spent many hours on the project, but the "book" never found any real takers ... obviously I was hoping for a mainstream publisher.
|Nov-09-08|| ||LIFE Master AJ: By the way, this was just one of the games that was quoted by MCO-14, when the authors of that section were doing their analysis of this opening line.|
|Nov-09-08|| ||An Englishman: Good Evening: I am shocked that I got the first few moves of the main line. Incidentally, capturing the Knight instead of the Bishop seems to lose to 20.Bd4+,Kg8 (e5; 21.Qxf7+); 21.Qh6, but my tactical skills are so poor that I'm probably wrong.|
This whole game is a typically amazing Velimirovic Attack; first the Knight and the Bishop put themselves en prise, and then they just stay there!
|Nov-09-08|| ||SufferingBruin: 19. Bd4
is the one that stands out for me. I tried playing out a g6 push but it didn't pan out. The dark square Bishop wants in on the action. Here goes...
20. g6 Nxg6
21. Qxh6+ and black gets all three 7th rank pawns and the Knight to boot.
20. gxf6 gxf6 (if black denies the sac, 21. gxf7 cannot be stopped and leads to mate)
21. Qh6 with mate to follow
20. Nxh6+ and mate soon follows.
20. Qxf7 and wins.
20. Nh6+ gxh6
21. Qxh6 and mate cannot be stopped.
Time to check.
|Nov-09-08|| ||SufferingBruin: I'm half-inclined to delete my post, I'm so far off. |
Very pretty game by Fedorov.
|Nov-09-08|| ||patzer2: For today's difficult Sunday puzzle, White initiates a demolition of pawn structure combination with 19. Nxg7!! to open up a decisive attack on the Black King-side castled position.|
Here's a short breakout analysis of the combination:
<19. Nxg7!! Bxd5>
19... Kxg7 20. Bd4+! Kg8
(20... e5 21. Qxf7+ Kh8 22. Qg8#;
20... f6 21. Rg1 Kh8 22. gxf6 Bd8 23. f7+ e5 24. Rg8#)
21. Qh6 Bxg5+ 22. Qxg5+ Ng6 23. Qf6 Kf8 24. Rxh7 Ke8 25. Bxc5 dxc5 26. Bxe6
<20. Qh6! e5>
20... Bxg5 21. Bxg5 Nxe4 22. Rg1 Ng6 23. Nf5 f6 24. Bxf6 exf5 25. Rxg6+ Kf7 26. Qxh7+ Ke8
(26... Ke6 27. Bd4+ Nf6 28.
27. Qh8+ Kd7 28. Rg7+
<21. Nh5 Nce6 22. exd5 b4 23. dxe6 Nxe6 24. Nf6+ Bxf6 25. gxf6 1-0>
Black resigns in lieu of the dual mate threats 26. Qxh7+ Kf1 27. Qh8# and 26. Rg1+ Kh8 27. Qxh7#.
|Nov-09-08|| ||HelaNubo: I don't really understand White's attack in the previous moves. What if 13.... gxf5 ? 14. Nd5 is met by 14... Nxb3+, and after 14.gxf5 Kh8 I cannot find a suitable line for white. Both knight and bishop en prise could be taken in any moment.|
|Nov-09-08|| ||DoubleCheck: Not sure if anyone other than myself went for 19. Qxh7+?!|
I think its forcing to a certain point
19. Qxh7+?! Nxh7
20. g6! (threatening gxh7+, h8=Q+ mate)
21. Bxe6+ Kh8
(Kf8 loses to Rxh7, Rh8+ mate)
22. Nxg7( now threatening Bd4)
Thats as far as i got as there was WAY to many variations after that
19. Qxh7+?! Nxh7
20. g6! fxg6
21. Bxe6+ Kh8
Was my first intention
I had other small ideas e.g.
19. Ng6+?! gxh6
-----(If 19...Kh8, 20. Nxf7+)
20. gxh6 Ng6
And now Black has satisfactory defence
I didn't think 19. Nxg7 was forcing 'enough' considering the amount of material white has already en prise IMO
|Nov-09-08|| ||Gilmoy: My smite-generator quickly (~few seconds) returned candidates <19.Nxg7> and <19.Nh6+>. Both have the ultimate purpose of opening g for a Rook. <20.Qh6> is a thematic King-trapping idea to compound the mate-on-g threat, which can justify a sac to open g/h, e.g. Fischer vs Gligoric, 1959 <28.Qh6!>|
Funny: White's Nf5 and Bd5 thumb their noses at the fork. Think of it thusly: White has already committed to offering one piece. Then Black's e6-pawn is overworked, so there's no extra harm in walking into the fork (or allowing the fork to happen): Black's pawn could capture only one White piece, and whichever one he takes, White was sacking it anyways.
In that light, the fork actually costs Black some tempi: (1) White could ignore it and let one piece fall, (2) ignore the recapture and use the other piece, and ideally (although not in this case) (3) do something else and let the fork happen. That's up to three free tempi while Black grubs some material. Now suppose White uses them to bring 3 attackers, and Black defends with his 1 extra piece. Lovely, no? Black certainly agreed that he never had the time to take either one!
|Nov-09-08|| ||goldfarbdj: <HelaNubo>: You're right that 14. Nd5 is met by Nxb3+, however White can play Bxc5 -- the bishop on b3 is much more important for the attack than the one on e3. After 14. ... dxc5 15. Nd5 Qa5 16. gxf5, White has terrifying threats. For instance, 17. Rxg7+ Kxg7 18. Qg4+ Kh8 19. Rg1.|
|Nov-09-08|| ||Civhai: I got Nxg7, but I didn't look at it a lot, I just intuitively liked it, but I was still far from solving the puzzle.|
|Nov-09-08|| ||piever: A brief summary of my ideas when I decided to look at the solution: 19. g6?! fxg6! unfortunately is just bad for white (e6 is protected so Bxe6 is not possible, the queen is en prise and so on).
19. Nxg7 Kxg7 20. Bd4+! Kg8 21. Qh6 e5 22. g6 (which now is stronger that at the 19th move) is crushing. Of course 19..Kxg7 is not forced, but if black doesn't take the knight white can simply play Qh6, retreat the knight and threaten mate on g7.|
This would be more than enough to convince me to play it OTB, but I would have needed:
1) to reach this position as white
2) somebody that tells me: 19.? White to play and win
3) enough time on the clock
Anyway impressive game by white: at the 13th move the knight sac on f5 for positional compensation (d5 square for the other knight and open g file) is really excellent!
|Nov-09-08|| ||mike1: ok-got Nxg7 but the game cannot be
the real test. Dont have software to check but the main line should be
exd5 allowing Nfe6 to defend g7.
could anybody check this please?
dont think the game is clearcut.
|Nov-09-08|| ||Marmot PFL: Black seemed intimidated by white's attack and probably had to play exf5 at some point, for instance after 15.g5 ef5 although 16.ef still gives white an attack.|
|Nov-09-08|| ||tallinn: <mike1> Well, to defend with Bxd5 was Rybka 2 choice as well. So the line played in the game is not that bad.|
The suggested exd5 is answered with Nf5 and then it is mate in all lines (threat Nh6+, Nxf7 and Bd4). Nfe6 does not work (Qxh7!), and Nce6 is met by Nh6+ Kh8 (Kg7 Qxf7+ Kh8 Qg8#) Qxf7 Ng6 Nf5 Ngf8 Bd4+ and mate soon.
|Nov-09-08|| ||Sularus: i got white's first three moves. haha!|
|Nov-09-08|| ||beenthere240: In my analysis, I figured 19. Nxg7 was right, but missed 19...Bxd5. At first I was in dispair since I had assumed the sac wuld be accepte. I finally found the Qh6 -- Nh5 idea, which forces black into lines that also force winning replies.|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·