< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Feb-25-08|| ||DUS: Can someone explain could the black play 25... c5 instead of actual 25...Bxb2? Thanks.|
|Feb-25-08|| ||Eyal: <DUS> 25...c5 26.Rxd4! (26.Rh1 is also possible, but that's even stronger) and now either 26...Nxf3 27.Kxf3 cxd4 28.Rh1 Rg6 29.Nf4 Rf6 30.Rd1, or 26...cxd4 27.Rh1 and if 27...Rg2 then 28.Nf4 Rdg8 29.Bxf7 R8g7 30.Nxg2 Rxg2 31.Be6 and the threat of Bh3 is decisive.|
|Feb-25-08|| ||Eyal: <tamar> As I mentioned, perhaps Black can play even more ambitiously in this 19...Kh7 line with 27...Nxb2 (instead of Nxf3+) 28.Reb1 (to escape the fork on f3) 28...Nd3 followed by 29...Nxf3+ after either a bishop retreat or Rd1. This leads to an interesting endgame where Black has 3 pawns for 2 exchanges, and his minor pieces are very active and well-coordinated. But it should probably also result in a draw.|
|Feb-25-08|| ||tamar: <Eyal> The most unbelievable stat, with these critical positions, is that Carlsen used only an hour for the whole game.|
Here is an extract from Henrik Carlsen's blog, as it pertains to 19...Kh7
<In this highly tactical position with vulnerable kings on both sides, Aronian thought for 35 minutes and exchanged on f3 with his bishop and afterwards played Kh8.
(During the closing ceremony later at night he mentioned that maybe Kh7 instead would be winning. Seemingly none of the players considered c6 a serious alternative for black neither on move 18 nor 19 during the game.)>
So I guess the evaluation of the two endgames you mention is the key point.
I haven't looked at the 27...Nxb2 line, but will now. Even with the aid of computers, it looks difficult to say for certain.
|Feb-25-08|| ||Eyal: <it looks difficult to say for certain> Yeah, this endgame contains a rather rare sort of material (im)balance - I doubt if there's any ready theory about it...|
Btw, you can see the exact clock times for the entire game at http://webcast.chessclub.com/Linare... (so apparently Magnus used exactly 66 minutes 35 seconds...). It's a pity that - at least in those super-tourneys - scores don't contain this information on a regular basis (as I believe Bronstein had already suggested).
|Feb-26-08|| ||Udit Narayan: Anand calls this "one heck of a game".
|Feb-27-08|| ||cogitate: can someone tell me what's wrong with : 25 ... Be5
26. Rh1 Rg2
27. f4 Bxb2 etc.
26. Rh1 Rg2
27. Rdg1 Rdg8
26. Rh1 Rg2
27. f4 Bxb2
26. Ke3?? c5!!
27. Nf4 Bd4+!
OR is it because ,
|Feb-27-08|| ||tamar: <can someone tell me what's wrong with : 25 ... Be5>|
After 25...Be5 26 Rh1 Rg2 27 f4 Bxb2 White can play 28 Ne3 Rdg8 29 Bxf7
which looks pretty clear. Black has no threats, and no way to solve the knight location.
So after 26 Rh1 c6 might be played, but then White can remove the bishop with 27 Ne7 Rg2 28 Nxc6
click for larger view
with 29 Nxe5 to follow.
|Feb-29-08|| ||Atking: <Eyal: I should mention that in the line 19...Kh7 20.Nd5 Rg8+ 21.Kf1 Ng4 22.Qxd4 Qxh4 23.Nxb6 cxb6 (Nh2+ is also possible, but this seems better) 24.fxg4, Black regains the piece with 24...Qh3+ followed by Qxb3.> Are you sure this position better for Black? I mean white Queen is well centralized. e.g 25.Ke2 QxBb3 26.Rh1 Qc4+ 26.QxQc4 bxQc4 28.f3 with Rh5 looks very playable. Black pawn strucure is broken so no real pawn up.|
<Tamar: ... In this line, to me even more elegant is 23...Ne5! 24 Nxa8 Qh3+ 25 Ke2 Qxf3+ again winning the bishop on b3 and retaining a centralized knight.> Again I'm not sure that so bad for White 26.Kd2 QxBb3 27.Qc3 Nc4+ (27...Nf3 28.Ke2 QxQc3 29.bxQc3 NxRe1 30.Nxc7 is hightly equal) 28.Ke2 QxQc3 29.bxQc3 RxNa8 30.a4 looks to me balanced e.g 30...Re8 31.axb Rxe4+ 32.Kd3 RxRe1 33.RxRe1 axb 34.Re7 In this kind of ending R is full power (To say 5) and N is more an less 3 pawns. Both lines looks to me equal which doesn't mean a force draw but a chance to win on both sides.
Therefore I agree with your <Really good analysis> <Eyal> used to give us a good insight of the position.
|Mar-01-08|| ||Discerning King: 27.Nf4! interesting move... instead of Ne7|
|Mar-01-08|| ||InspiredByMorphy: Am I reading this correctly in the site caption up top? Did Carlsen play this game in 7 mins 27 secs? Black playing for an hour 41, and 27 secs? |
|Mar-01-08|| ||Xaurus: <Am I reading this correctly in the site caption up top? Did Carlsen play this game in 7 mins 27 secs? Black playing for an hour 41, and 27 secs?>|
Magnus made move 40 and hence got 1 hour more on his clock.
|Mar-01-08|| ||Eyal: <Am I reading this correctly in the site caption up top? Did Carlsen play this game in 7 mins 27 secs?> This seems to be just a mistake, but Carlsen did play very fast. As was already mentioned in a previous post, according to the clock times shown by ICC (in http://webcast.chessclub.com/Linare...), he still had 53:25 on his clock at the end of the game - and this is confirmed by Carlsen's father, who says in his blog that Carlsen "spent just above one hour on the clock".|
|Mar-07-08|| ||MrJimA: whens the last time youve seen a 17 yr old beat up on people of this calibur? world champ in 2 yrs|
|Mar-18-08|| ||InspiredByMorphy: Perhaps 18. ...Nxf3+ 19.gxf3 Be6 would have been a safer continuation for black.|
|Apr-10-08|| ||LORDsAngellos: Would 25. Be5 have saved Black's knight? It seemed to me that Aronian blundered in having to trade a knight for a pawn.|
|May-09-10|| ||SU1989: I really liked <21.. Ng4>! Too bad Aronian lost the game.|
|May-09-10|| ||The Famous Chess Cat: 14 points above par in Guess the Move. Boo-Yah!|
|May-09-10|| ||thegoodanarchist: This game is astounding. The way the elite GMs play these days is incomprehensible to me.|
|May-09-10|| ||WhiteRook48: 22 Qxd4+...|
|May-10-10|| ||kevin86: I was hoping for a Mother's Day idea-say a game between women or a game with a lot of queens.|
|Dec-17-11|| ||FSR: I wouldn't call 22.Qxd4 a desperado move. As I wrote in Wikipedia, "In chess, a desperado piece is a piece that seems determined to give itself up, typically either (1) to sell itself as dearly as possible in a situation where both sides have hanging pieces or (2) to bring about stalemate if it is captured (or in some instances, to force a draw by threefold repetition if it is not captured) (Hooper & Whyld 1992:106–7)." http://tinyurl.com/6u54qfz|
22.Qxd4 meets neither definition.
|Dec-17-11|| ||Gilmoy: <FSR: 22.Qxd4+ not a "desperado"> Agreed. It's what I've called (moving into, or creating) <mutual threat>, which is ultimately just a trade. Sometimes you do it to steal a piece: Carlsen is "stealing" the Nd4, but he's already on the hook for his Bh4 since Black's Q is protected, so it works out completely even.|
Tactically, Black has offered his Q to threaten mate. White must answer the mate, but he can afford to return his own (Q - piece) and maintain equality. Hence other factors decide the eval, and it's that <22..Nh2+> strands this N with <no escape> -- which I submit as a major justification of "desperado". Indeed, <28..Nxf3> is a perfect desperado: selling itself "as dearly as possible". ([H&W]'s "both sides have hanging pieces" is, oddly, more likely to arise from correct planning, since <no escape> usually implies an earlier blunder.)
N.B. Carlsen could afford this even if 19..Kh7 (and thus if 22.Qxd4 wasn't check), since it's still <mutual threat>. Then it might go 22..Qxh4 23.Nxb6 with a secondary mutual threat to both Ns, but Black will give the R for a tempo: 23..Ne5 24.Nxa8? Qh3+ 25.Ke2 Qxf3+ 26.Kd2 Qxb3 and White must dodge the family fork, with R for N+PP and still even.
|Dec-17-11|| ||Penguincw: Pawn falls on next move.|
|Aug-09-12|| ||xanadu: In principle, it seems natural for White to play Bg5 when Black plays Bc5 in the Ruy Lopez. The defense is not easy for Black, but Aronian found the wright moves and got a winning position... until he missed 18...c6. Then, it seems to me that the result of this game is due more to a Aronian´s mistake than to an excellent performance by Carlsen in the opening. Of course, after move 19, Carlsen did not forgive...as usual...I would like to know the opinion of Ulhumbrus, who mostly focus on the openings.|
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