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| Mar-08-09 | | Terry McCracken: This isn't a good puzzle. What's insane is Black blunders twice in a row after White's 23. g5 which leaves White better. Black should have played 23..Re4 not hg? Then White plays 24. Ng6 and Black ends it with Nh7?? and Game Over! |
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| Mar-08-09 | | DoubleCheck: Okay for todays puzzle I want to exploit the white open h-file and aim for h6-h7-h8 traps Best move to activate rook is by g5 plus its forcing since it threatens to capture a piece if Black moves the Knight his exposing himself even more
considering its a key defender (of h7-square)
23. g5 hxg6
(23...Nf8? 24. gxh6 gxh6 25. Rxh6 and Black position is very risky and unsafe) Now white attempts to attack Black weak h8 by Ng6, again very forcing since it threatens mate via 25. Rh8# 24. Ng6!
If Black decides to play fxg6?? this allows White a very strong move Qxe6+ 25... fxg6??
26. Qxe6+ Qf7
27. Rh8+! Kxh8
28. Qxf7 and white is winning
26. Qxe6+ Kf8??
27. Rh8+ Ng8
28. Qxg8+ mate 1-0
So fxg6?? is out of the picture
After 24. Ng6 maybe Black could try
either 24...Nh7 or 24...Rh4 since any other move allows Rh8# 25. Ng6! Nh7
26. Rxh7 Kxh7
27. Qh5+ Kg8
28. Qh8# (So Nh7 no good)
24. Ng6! Rh4
25. Nxh4 gxh4
26. Rxh4 g6
And Blacks position is abit better now although his down the exchange And finally after 24. Ng6!
Black cant try 24. Bxg2+?! as this leads no where
e.g.
24. Ng6! Bxg2+?!
25. Kxg2 Rg4+??
26. Qxg4!
(since Black cant recapture the queen because of Rh8#) 24. Ng6! Bxg2+?!
25. Kxg2 Qb7+
26. f3 also leads Black no where
Lets see how I faired
== Im surprised Black didnt try 24...Rh4 although his position was unsafe anyways after g5 |
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| Mar-08-09 | | Quad Fifties: Draganslayer :) |
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| Mar-08-09 | | think: <Terry McCracken> 23. ... Re4 24. Bxe4 wins at least the exchange. What else do you suggest besides 24. ... Nh7? 24. ... fxg6 loses to 25. Qxe6+, and there isn't any other counter to Rh8#. |
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Mar-08-09
 | | dzechiel: White to play (23?). Material even. "Insane."
Just glancing at the position, my gut instinct says that it is black who appears better. Black is castled, with no doubled pawns and his bishop and rook both seem to be more active than their white counterparts. But, white has some advantages as well: All the open h-file gives ready access to the black king, and all of the white pieces are aimed in that direction. Lastly, the black pieces by-and-large are not in position to defend the monarch. So, what are some ideas here? Let's list some candidate moves and the ideas behind them. - 23 g5, by pushing this pawn white will either gain a tempo on the knight and be able to play 24 gxh6, or black will be forced to capture with 23...hxg5 opening the h-file completely for the white rook/queen combination. - 23 Nxf7, as has been seen many times in the past, f2/f7 is the weakest point on the board, and by taking this pawn white would remove the support for the black pawn on e6 at the same time he's opening the e-file allowing a double attack on that square. - 23 Qe3, this attacks the rook on d4 (in order to gain a tempo), but also positions the white queen for quick transfer to the h-file, or to cover g5. I don't see any other candidates that I want to get behind (but that certainly doesn't mean I'm right. If I had to pick one of these, it would be 23 Qe3
Gaining a tempo by attacking the rook. Black would normally respond with 23...Rad8 24 g5
I don't know how black will respond here. Taking with 24...hxg5
seems to give white an awful lot of activity for his pieces (25 Qh3), but it may be survivable. That's all I got now. Time to check and see how this game ended. |
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| Mar-08-09 | | crwynn: <24. Ng6! Rh4
25. Nxh4 gxh4
26. Rxh4 g6
And Blacks position is abit better now although his down the exchange>I don't know where you are getting that, White wins easily: 27.Rb4 Qc6 28.Qf3 Qf3 29.gf and f3 is poisoned, so White can play Be4 and the game is over. |
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| Mar-08-09 | | Terry McCracken: < think: <Terry McCracken> 23. ... Re4 24. Bxe4 wins at least the exchange. What else do you suggest besides 24. ... Nh7? 24. ... fxg6 loses to 25. Qxe6+, and there isn't any other counter to Rh8#.> I suggest giving the exchange and putting a halt to White's attack. White hasn't a forced win after 23..Re4! As to 24..Nh7?? Black is already lost but 24..Rh4 is better, lost but better. |
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| Mar-08-09 | | LIFE Master AJ: Very quick analysis ... about two minutes or less. I like 23.Qe3, and 23.g5. Both look pretty good. If I had to choose one, it would be 23.g5, just because it is more forcing. I don't see a forced win for White, I am probably missing some cool tactic. (Fritz will "explain" everything to me, I am sure.) |
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| Mar-08-09 | | nuwanda: i didnt solve this puzzle, indeed i didnt even try it, insane does not motivate me very much. But looking at the solution, i think the puzzle is indeed quite "easy". 23.g5 is a move that certainly comes to mind, and once you see that the knight on g6 cannot be taken (which is not too difficult) 24.Ng6 is obvious. i think, if the puzzle has been rated medium/difficult i would have been able to solve it. Sure, back can give an exchange (23...Re4 or 24...Rh4), but in may eyes both lead to a technical lost position. i do not agree with <Terry McCracken>'s <White hasn't a forced win after 23..Re4>. i think the position is a technical win for white. And in a won position you always have a forced win (by definition), although we are not able to give the lines. |
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| Mar-08-09 | | Lightboxes: puzzle is not insane...got the moves in 2 minutes. |
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| Mar-08-09 | | stacase: 23 g5 was obvious. |
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| Mar-08-09 | | Terry McCracken: < nuwanda: i didnt solve this puzzle, indeed i didnt even try it, insane does not motivate me very much.
But looking at the solution, i think the puzzle is indeed quite "easy". 23.g5 is a move that certainly comes to mind, and once you see that the knight on g6 cannot be taken (which is not too difficult) 24.Ng6 is obvious. i think, if the puzzle has been rated medium/difficult i would have been able to solve it. Sure, back can give an exchange (23...Re4 or 24...Rh4), but in may eyes both lead to a technical lost position. i do not agree with <Terry McCracken>'s <White hasn't a forced win after 23..Re4>. i think the position is a technical win for white. And in a won position you always have a forced win (by definition), although we are not able to give the lines.> Of course you don't agree as you don't know what you're talking about! Put your money where your mouth is and demonstrate a win for White after 23..Re4! |
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Mar-08-09
 | | Once: Interesting starting position. White has a far advanced knight, a half open h file with the Rh1 still at home and doubled heavy pieces on the e file. The Bd3 shines stabs into black's position by covering h7, so in theory a back rank mate might be possible. The bad news is that we are not yet castled and the rooks aren't joined up. Switching to the darkside, Black's Rd4 is unprotected and his Ra8 is out of play. The Bb7 is a threat - we have to watch out for lines with Bxg2+. I looked for a while at 23. Qe3, but it didn't excite me. Black defends his rook with 23...Rad8 and on 24. g5 hg 25. Qh6 Rh5. Can't see how white is going to break through. So then I switched my allegiances to 23. g5 with a double hit on Nf6 and h6. And this is where it started to get fuzzy. Black has many defences to calculate. We need to think about hg, Nd7, Ng4, Re4, Ne4. Wandered down some pretty lines for each ... not worth recounting here. But I figured that 23. g5 was the move I would play, so I went for that. Long and bitter experience has taught me not to spend too long on Sundays. Fritz11 finds this: 23. g5 Re4 24. Bxe4 Nxe4 25. Nd3 Nxg5 26. Nxb4 Rc8 with an eval of +1.02. Good for white, but not the walkover in the game. It's the exchange for the pawn, but lots of play left in it. For all those who found the puzzle tweazy ... what had you planned to play against 23...Re4? |
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| Mar-08-09 | | goodevans: It took me less than a minute to find 23 g5 hxg5 24 Ng6, which means it probably ISN’T today’s solution. I have to admit that I didn’t really spend enough time looking at alternative responses from black (too eager to see if I was right!) and I note with interest <Terry McCracken>’s 23 ... Re4. After the “obvious” 24 Bxe4 Nxe4 white has a material advantage, but both kings are looking less than safe and I’m not completely sure white’s winning. Another response I didn’t look into was 23 ... Ne4, although simply 24 Nf3 seems to pose black a bit of a problem. Anyway, I’ll be looking back later to see if 23 g5 hxg5 24 Ng6 really is the solution, and in a way I’ll be a little disappointed if it is. |
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| Mar-08-09 | | goodevans: I see that whilst I was composing my previous post, <Once> has provided a Fritz analysis of 23 ... Re4. So, 23 g5 leads to a +1.02 advantage. I have to reiterate that I'll be a bit disappointed if 23 g5 turns out to be today's solution even if it means I got to solve a Sunday in record time. |
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| Mar-08-09 | | malbase: Black has a weak King side, with a target at h6.
Black is guarding from the position f7 with the Q at c7.
So this puzzle was not that hard to solve. |
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Mar-08-09
 | | outplayer: I didn't spend much time on this puzzle. 23.g5 came to my mind but I couldn't see 24.Ng6!. We are supposed to calculate the entire line without moving the pieces on the board, aren't we? |
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| Mar-08-09 | | nuwanda: hi <Terry McCracken>, no need to get aggresive, no offence intended... and of course you are right, that i dont know what i'm speaking about, which goes for everybody else who is talking about chess. and to your demand to give prooving lines: due to the finity of chess, for every position is true, that there is either a forced win for white or for black or at least one player can force a draw. So your statement <White hasn't a forced win after 23..Re4> implies that there is a forced way to win for black or a forced way to draw. Can you demonstrate this ? greets, nuwanda |
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Mar-08-09
 | | Once: <Terry McCracken: Of course you don't agree as you don't know what you're talking about!> A little bit aggressive for a Sunday perhaps? |
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| Mar-08-09 | | apoka: The more I am looking at the puzzle kibitzing the more I get he impression that there are two different kinds of puzzle solvers on chessgames: The first kind is trying to get a lucky punch, i.e. more or less guess the correct move and the second kind tries to compute all/most of the lines such that they would be confident enough to play this move in a real game. At least these two different ways of thinking about a puzzle explain most of the kibitzing. :-) <Terry McCracken: This isn't a good puzzle.> Black is not completely lost when he plays optimal. However, the puzzle itself appears to be reasonable since g5 is clearly the best move. Toga II in multivariant analysis gives me he following after a few minutes: 1. g5 +0.92
2. Qe3 -0.31
3. Kg1 -0.46
In my opinion it is OK to have a few puzzles where one party is not clearly winning, but there is a clear best move (in particular, since the natural reply hxg5 gives White a clear advantage). |
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| Mar-08-09 | | goodevans: Interesting thoughts, <Apoka>, although I'd prefer the term "instinct" to "lucky punch". W.r.t. <" ... tries to compute all/most of the lines such that they would be confident enough to play this move in a real game">: When I set out to solve it this morning I went far enough that I'd have played the game line in rapid play, but under normal time control I'd have looked a bit deeper. So where does that put me? ;) |
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Mar-08-09
 | | whiteshark: <Once: <Fritz11 finds this: 23. g5 Re4 24. Bxe4 Nxe4 25. Nd3 Nxg5 26. Nxb4 Rc8 with an eval of +1.02. Good for white, but not the walkover in the game. It's the exchange for the pawn, but lots of play left in it.>> Position after <26.Nxb4>  click for larger view There is also <26...Bxg2+ 27.Kxg2 Qb7+ 28.Kg3 Qxb4 29.Qe4 Qf8>  click for larger view which is said to be (+.39/17), but imo it's far from clear. |
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| Mar-08-09 | | apoka: <goodevans: Interesting thoughts, Apoka, although I'd prefer the term "instinct" to "lucky punch".> Yes, instinct is the better term and sounds less negative (after all even the best players have to rely on their instinct sometimes). <So where does that put me? ;)> If you did not move pieces or use computer aid, then I would tend to put you in the second category since you try to compute sufficiently many lines to actually play the move in a real game. That said, I am not particularly fond of putting people in categories. :-) It's just that comments like <g5 was obvious> and <puzzle is not insane...got the moves in 2 minutes.> seem a bit strange. Playing such a move in two minutes is probably more done by instinct than an accurate assessment of possible lines. I would also go for g5 more or less instantly, but finding out why it is a really good move (and there are no better alternatives) took me much longer. |
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| Mar-08-09 | | Mikhail Tal fan: first.. i was considering and thinking about g5 to open the h file , but tell me, what about 23Rxh6 folloxed by Qe3 (if gxh6)Attacking the black rook and the h pawn , and also king e2 preparing to put the other rook in h file? if i am wrong , excuse me , because you know my favourite player and the madness of his moves ! lol XD! |
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| Mar-08-09 | | Ladolcevita: got the first move,and I dont know why I make this move.....just by intuition |
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