chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

(If you register a free account you won't see all these ads!)
Sergey Zagrebelny vs Attila Ponyi
OB-II 9192 (1992), rd 3
Scandinavian Defense: Panov Transfer (B01)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

NOTE: You are using our new chess viewer, "Olga." For more info see the Olga Quickstart Guide. You can switch back to the old viewer (pgn4web) from the pulldown menu below. If you have questions or suggestions see our Olga chessforum.

explore this opening
find similar games 195 more games of S Zagrebelny
sac: 16.Nxf7 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can get computer analysis by clicking the "ENGINE" button below the game.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jun-21-09  Madman99X: My crafty tells me that after the demolition sacrifice:

16. Nxf7 Kxf7 17. d5 Qb8?! 18. dxc6 Bxc6


click for larger view

I see black very cramped, and his king somewhat exposed, but his pawn structure suggests to my amateur eye, that he ought to be able to hold for a draw?

16. Nxf7 seems the best move to me, but I don't see anything decisive here.

Jun-21-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  gofer: I have found a winning line, so I think this is probably the answer...

16 Bb5 (threatening to take the knight on c6 and also it pins the rook on e8)

Option 1
16 ... Qc7 (avoiding the discovered rook attack on the d file after Bxe5 or Nxe5)

17 Qf3 (threatening 18 Qxf6 (with a forced mate in one) and also further attacking the knight on c6)

17 ... Bxd5 (forced)
18 dxe5 (threatening Qf6 mating)

18 ... Ne7/Nd4/Nxe5 fails to Qf6 mating
18 ... Qxe5 failes to Rc7 winning easily

18 ... f6/f5 (forced)
19 exf6 (threatning f7+ which forces Qxf7 Bxc6 winning the exchange, so f7 needs to be dealt with somehow...)

19 ... Nd4 fails to cxd4 with a discovered attack on the queen

19 ... Nxe5
20 Qg6 Rec8
21 Bf4 winning the knight and Rd7 will follow shortly

Option 2
16 ... Bxe5
17 dxe5
17 ... Qc7 transposes into the line above after 18 Qf3

17 ... Qc8 transposes into a similar line to the one above but after 18 Qf3 Ne5 loses to f7+ which is a forced mate 17 ... Qe7 loses to Bxc6

Option 3 (probably the best line for black)
16 ... Rc8
17 Qf3 Bxe5 (Nxd4/Nxe5 fails to 18 Qxb7)
18 dxe5 Qe7 (forced to stop Qf6 mating)
19 Qg5 (threatning Bg5)

19 ... Red8 (not Rcd8) 20 Bg5 Qc7 (or Rxd1 21 Rxd1 Qc7) 21 Qf6 (threatening mate) Qe7 22 Qxe7 Nxe7 23 Rxd8 Bxe7 winning

19 ... f6/f5
20 exf6 Qf7
21 Re6

and all is virtually lost for black their position gets more and more cramped... moves like Rcd1 are coming and Qh4 will cement control of d8 if black tries e5...

21 ... Red8 22 Rxe6 Qxe6 23 Bc4! mating
21 ... Nd8 22 Rcd1 (preparing to win the exchange on d8 or win the queen with Rc7) 21 ... e4 22 Qh4 Nd8/Nb8 23 Rcd1 with 24 Rc7 winning 21 ... Nb8 22 Rcd1 with 24 Rc7 winning

its all over...

Time to check...

Jun-21-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  gofer: Hmmm... no banana...

But I take heart from others that think the actual solution is far from perfect...

Can anyone show me that 16 Bb5 is flawed...?

It looks okay to me...

:-)

Jun-21-09  Utopian2020: Black blundered by 17...exd5. Black should have played 17...Qb8. Black's postion is still precarious. There are several other moves besides 16.Nxf7 that exploit the weaknesses in black's position.
Jun-21-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <MostlyAverageJoe> <OTOH, coming up with Qb8 as a saving move is pretty much insane, so as a move most likely to induce a blunder, 16.Nxf7 definitely comes up on top.>

The reason that 17Qb8 works is because it is the only queen move that protects against two nasty threats at the same time after 18 dxe6+ Kg8.

The first threat is 19 Rd7. The queen already on b8 protects the bishop and allows 19 Ne7, below.


click for larger view

This move frees the bishop and defends against e7+.

The second threat is 19 Qf3, attacking the bishop. However, on b8, black can simply answer with 19Qe5. Blacks bishop does not have to move, so whites queen cannot get an opening on the f file.


click for larger view

In addition, now white has to wary of 20...Na5, attacking both the bishop and the queen.

Jun-21-09  mrsaturdaypants: After 16...Qb8, why not just 17 dxc6 Bxc6 18 Qg4? Material is even, but black is clearly in a bind.

It's not mate, though. Nice save.

Jun-21-09  remolino: Madman99X:

19. Rd3! and White is winning

Jun-21-09  Jason Frost: Good puzzle. At first I thought if black took the pawn and the queen white had mate with Rd7+, but then realized black could just play kd8, so then just decided on Rxd8 winning material. Not sure what happened in the game, since I can't see it for some reason but seems right.

When I press on the game I see the board, and scoresheet, but no moves? (Other games work fine)

Jun-21-09  butilikefur: <16. Nxf7 Kxf7 17. d5 Qc8 18. dxe6+ Rxe6 19. Rd6 Nd8> (19...Be5 20. Rxe6; 19...Ne5 20. Bxe6+ Qxe6 21. Rxe6 Kxe6 22. f4)

<20. Re1 Qxc4> (20...Kg8 21. Rxe6 wins)

<21. Qxc4 Rc8 22. Rd7+ Be7> (22...Ke8 Rxd8+; 22...Kg8 23. Rxe6)

<23. Rxe6> wins

Jun-21-09  DCP23: <chessgames.com: Sergey Zagrebelny is one of the lesser known grandmasters but certainly one who deserves attention--his games are littered with sparkling combinations such as this one.>

S. Zagrebelny might have been lesser known a few years back but certainly not now, because now he works as an online commentator for chesspro.ru. It was he who commented Ivanchuk - Shirov there today, for example.

Jun-21-09  VaselineTopLove: Can anyone analyze what happens after 16.d5

That's the first move I saw...and then I started considering Nxf7

Jun-21-09  Nietzowitsch: <16. Nxf7!> The advantage of a bad memory is that one enjoys several times the same good things for the first time.
Jun-21-09  garrido: Es muy evidente y fcil la prmera movida
DEL ACERTIJO DE HOY
CABALLO POR F7.
Jun-21-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  DarthStapler: I actually considered all the moves up to Rxd5 and Rxe2 but I couldn't see the end
Jun-21-09  WhiteRook48: I missed it, going for 16 Nxg6?? fxg6? 17 Bxe6+?!
Jun-21-09  Anatoly21: Okay, its been suggested that 16.Nxf7 Kxf7 17.d5 Qb8 18.dxc6 Bxc6 19.Rd3 leaves white with a winning attack.

I disagree, since 19...Qe5 20.Re3 Qd6 21.Re1 Bd5 keeps a dangerous balance. I think white has the advantage, but nothing too serious.

Of course, its not so easy to play from the Black side and hold the balance.

Jun-21-09  MostlyAverageJoe: Well, after some heavy analysis with forward/backward sliding, my silicon monster decided that 16.Nxf7 is, after all, the best move, about half-a-pawn better than either 16.Qe3 or 16.Bb5. However, this is really comparing apples and oranges, because the other two moves were done with infinity analysis, and 16.Nxf7 was done with much more computing effort.

The mainline goes something like this:

16. Nxf7 Kxf7 17. d5 Qb8 18. Qf3 Ne5 19. dxe6+ Ke7 20. Qh3 Rh8 21. Bb3 Be4 22. f4 Nd3 23. Rxd3 Bxd3 24. Qxd3 ...


click for larger view

It would be interesting what Rybka would say in the puzzle position after a day or two on 4 CPUs...

Jun-21-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheBish: S Zagrebelny vs A Ponyi, 1992

White to play (16.?) "Insane"

Material is even, but White appears to have an advantage due to superior development.

Candidate moves: Nxf7, Nxc6, Qf3, Bb5

16. Bb5 Rc8 accomplishes nothing, as does 16. Nxc6 Bxc6.

16. Qf3 fails to 16...Nxe5! 17. dxe5 (or 17. Qxb7 Nxc4) Bxf3 18. Rxd8 Raxd8 19. exf6 Rd1+ 20. Rxd1 Bxd1 and Black has won an exchange. That leaves only one move that shows any promise:

16. Nxf7!! Kxf7 17. d5! and Black has trouble meeting all the threats:

A) 17...exd5 18. Rxd5! Rxe2 (other moves allow 19. Rd7+ or 19. Rxd8 with devastating effect) 19. Re5+! (this move was hard to find) Qd5 20. Bxd5 mate.

B) 17...Qc7 18. dxe6+! Kg8 19. Rd7 Qc8 20. Qf3 Rf8 21. e7+ is crushing (21...Kh8 22. exf8=Q+ or 21...Rf7 22. Qxf6).

C) 17...Qc8 18. dxe6+! Kg8 (or 18...Rxe6 19. Qxe6+! Qxe6 20. Rd7+ Ne7 21. Bxe6+ Kxe6 22. Rxb7 and White is up an exchange and a pawn) 19. Qf3 Be5 (19...Rf8 20. e7+ is similar to line B) 20. Qf7+ Kh8 21. Rd7 and Black will have to give up queen for rook to stop the mate.

D) 17...Qe7 18. dxe6+! Kg8 19. Rd7 Qc5 20. Rxb7 Na5 21. Qf3 Nxb7 22. Qxf6 Re7 (or 22...Qe7 23. Qf7+ Qxf7 24. exf7+ wins a rook) 23. Be3 Qxc4 (or 23...Qd6 24. Bd4 mates) 24. Qxe7 Nc5 25. Qf7+ Kh8 26. Bd4+ wins the queen, and soon the king.

There are sure to be other lines I missed, but time to check!

Jun-21-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheBish: Yes! Finally, for the first time in memory (I think I did it before), I got an "insane" problem without missing anything.
Jun-21-09  gmhwanaby: congrats <TheBish> !!
Jun-22-09  MostlyAverageJoe: <TheBish> You missed 17. ... Qb8

But so did Zagrebelny, apparently, since his notes to the game only say:

<17...Qc8 18.dxe6+ Rxe6 (18...Kg8 19.Qf3!) 19.Qxe6+! Qxe6 20.Rd7+ Ne7 21.Bxe6+ Kxe6 22.Rxb7 >

Jun-22-09  psmith: <Anatoly21>
After your suggestion of 16.Nxf7 Kxf7 17.d5 Qb8 18.dxc6 Bxc6 19.Rd3 Qe5 20.Re3 Qd6, White can play 21. Bb3! with the idea of meeting Bd5 with c4-c5, with advantage. For example:

(a) 21. Bb3 Bb7 22. Re1 Bd5 23. c4 Bb7 24. c5 Qc6 25. Qg4 Kg8 26. Rf3 Bb2 27. Bxe6+ Kh8 28. Bc1 Bg7 29. Rh3

(b) 21. Bb3 Bd7 22. Rf3 Bc6 23. Rf4 Rf8 24. Rxf6+ Kxf6 25. Rd1 Bd5 26. Rd3 Rfe8 27. Bxd5 exd5 28. Rf3+

Both lines winning for White, I think (help from Fritz 5.32)

An alternative to 20...Qd6 is 20...Qc5. The point is that after 21. Bxe6+ Rxe6 22. Rxe6 Qd5 23. Rxf6+ Kxf6 24. Qg4 Re8 Black has decent chances of a draw.

Jun-22-09  Anatoly21: <psmith> Looks like you are probably right. Ugh. The things you miss when you analyze by hand instead of letting Fritz show you the way.

I'll see if Black has anything better when I'm not trying to analyze a complex position during my constitutional law class.

Jul-07-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheBish: <MostlyAverageJoe: <TheBish> You missed 17...Qb8 ...>

Actually, I saw that, but didn't bother to include it, since it's a weaker defense (17...Qb8 18. dxe6+ Rxe6 19. Qxe6# or 18...Kg8 19. Qf3 is similar to the other line). Probably why Zagrebelny didn't include it either.

Sep-07-14  SpiritedReposte: Discovered mate is always slick. I guess technically the queen can interpose but its still a nice picture.

The creme de la creme is DOUBLE checkmate though, with both pieces en prise.

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 3)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, totally anonymous, and 100% free--plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.
  3. No personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No posting personal information of members.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform an administrator.


NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, you might try the Kibitzer's Café.
Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections [what is this?]
Powerful Sac Combination
from sacrifice... by ice lemon tea
my favorite games
by iywo
Scandinavian Def: Panov Transfer (B01) 1-0 Brilliant f7 attack
from Pawn Mowers & Trimmers by fredthebear
Notes by Zagrebelny from Informant.
from Annotations by Various Authorities & Fredthebear by fredthebear
venator's favorite games
by venator
Scandinavian Def: Panov Transfer (B01) 1-0 Brilliant f7 attack
from Attacks a2/a7, b2/b7 and c2/c7 ECO B by FTB by fredthebear
Scandinavian Def: Panov Transfer (B01) 1-0 Brilliant f7 attack
from Yo' F'eddabaer's Fust Ches Opinens 1-2-3 by fredthebear
Scandinavian Def: Panov Transfer (B01) 1-0 Brilliant f7 attack
from Kolty's Single, Double, & TRIPLE KP Attack by fredthebear
laszlosantha's favorite games
by laszlosantha
Scandinavian Def: Panov Transfer (B01) 1-0 Brilliant f7 attack
from 2 Turns Left. Help yourself says Fredthebear. by fredthebear
16.? (Sunday, June 21)
from Puzzle of the Day 2009 by Phony Benoni
Bishops'n'Rook
from Notable Sacrifices by vladedivac
Scandinavian Def: Panov Transfer (B01) 1-0 Brilliant f7 attack
from 19 and Under League Excludes Fredthebear by fredthebear
Prettiest Checkmates
by SpiritedReposte
Instructive Chess Games
by Owl
Scandinavian Def: Panov Transfer (B01) 1-0 Brilliant f7 attack
from Memo '16 to C Quad by fredthebear
19 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection I by wwall
Scandinavian Defense
by ISeth
Scandinavian Def: Panov Transfer (B01) 1-0 Brilliant f7 attack
from Cntr Cntr = Center Counter / Scandi_navian by fredthebear
Scandinavian Def: Panov Transfer (B01) 1-0 Brilliant f7 attack
from Oh Snap! said Fredthebear. by fredthebear
plus 18 more collections (not shown)


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2017, Chessgames Services LLC