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Later Kibitzing> |
Oct-17-08
 | | OhioChessFan:  <48.Kh3 a5 49.g4 hxg3 50.hxg3 Rh8 51.Kg2 Kb5 52.Rf1 Ka4 53.Ra1 Rg8 >I think Rh5 would be better for Black here. |
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Oct-17-08
 | | MWYOUNG: Team,
I have pretty much worked out the win after Kf3 for the black team. I hope they have not, and accept the draw offer. I am going to put my time and effort 100% to the other game now. As either the black team will accept the draw offer, and this will be our last move. The other option is the black team also sees their advantage, declines our draw offer, and presses home their attack. Either way this is my last posting to this game, have fun and good luck. |
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Oct-18-08
 | | Touch of Knight: <MWYOUNG> I don’t understand your attitude. If you have worked out a black win, why don’t you present it here? Otherwise, how can you persuade those of us who believe in Kf3 to switch our votes? |
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| Oct-18-08 | | The Chess Express: <Touch of Knight> The only black win comes after 48. Kh3. |
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| Oct-18-08 | | Toastman: In my view Kh3, which I voted for, leads to a dead draw with few complications wheras Kf3 leaves a game where our "a" pawn is lost and we have the harder job promoting the "g" or "h" than the black side has promoting on the "a" file. That is my rationale for voting for Kh3 with a draw. |
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| Oct-18-08 | | The Chess Express: <Toastman> Holding onto the a  with Kh3 … Rf1 … Ra1 loses as I have shown. How do you suggest we improve on the analysis I’ve given? |
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Oct-18-08
| | OhioChessFan: <48. Kh3 a4 <49. Rf1>. This is a more efficient way to play the line. 49...Kb5 50. Ra1 Ka4 51. Ra2 b5 52. Ra1 Rg5 53. Ra2 e5 54. dxe5 Rxe5 55. Kxh4 Re3 56. g4 Rxc3 57. g5 Re3 58. g6 Re2 59. Kg5 (59. Kh5 Rxh2) d4 60. g7 d3 0-1 > Why not 51. g3? |
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Oct-18-08
 | | Chessgames Challenge:
48.Kf3
FINAL VOTE RESULTS:
| 48.Kf3 |
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27 | votes |
(65.9%) |
| 48.Kh3 |
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14 | votes |
(34.1%) |
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total # of votes: 41
draw requests: 23 (56.1%)
click for larger view
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Oct-18-08
| | Chessgames Challenge: 
48.Kf3
click for larger view
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Oct-18-08
| | vikinx: Offered a draw? |
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Oct-18-08
| | ronpaz1: it seems to me now that best play of both sides will lead to draw. please check the following analysys: 48...a5 49.Re7 (or Rf6) Kb5 50.Rxe6 Ka4 51.Rb6 Rf8+ 52.Ke2! 
click for larger view(I didn't check all lines but it seems that 52.Ke3? is losing to 52...Rf1! for example 53.g3 h3!) 52...Rf7 53.Rb1(2) (from now on White will move the rook along the second file, the other waiting move 53.Ke1? probebly losing to 53...h3) 53...Kxa3 54.Rb6 a4 55.Rb4 Re7+ 56.Kf2 Ka2 57.Rb5 (of course not 57.Rxa4+? Kb2) 
click for larger viewat this position Black can push its king to a1 and pawn to a2 but it will not change the outcome. so I guess 57...Rf7+ and draw offer is the correct way to go. |
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Oct-18-08
| | Dmaster995: <TCE: “You first have to equalize before you look for something”
(Bobby Fischer regarding 48. Kh3)>
Ok.
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Oct-18-08
 | | plang: I think the position is interesting and that we should continue to play; that is what Korchnoi would do. |
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Oct-18-08
 | | chesstoplay: Voted 48. ... a5 and to accept the < draw offer >. |
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Oct-18-08
| | ronpaz1: <ronpaz1: so I guess 57...Rf7+ and draw offer is the correct way to go.> oops I didn't noticed that the White team already offered us draw! personally I would like to see other team members analysis first. even if the analysis leads to draw but our game is risks less while White have to find some only moves, I suggest not to accept the draw for now. I respect the White team and I assume that if there is a draw they will find it, but I think that we should take a practical decision. |
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Oct-18-08
 | | Eyal: <ronpaz1: it seems to me now that best play of both sides will lead to draw. please check the following analysys:
48...a5 49.Re7 (or Rf6) Kb5 50.Rxe6 Ka4 <51.Rb6> Rf8+ <52.Ke2!> (I didn't check all lines but it seems that 52.Ke3? is losing to 52...Rf1!) 52...Rf7 53.Rb1(2) (from now on White will move the rook along the second file) 53...Kxa3 54.Rb6 a4 55.Rb4 Re7+ 56.Kf2 Ka2 57.Rb5 (of course not 57.Rxa4+? Kb2):
click for larger viewat this position Black can push its king to a1 and pawn to a2 but it will not change the outcome.> Yeah, it looks like a draw to me. The two points that White has to get here are (1) keeping the rook on the b-file, so that our king can't cross over to attack the c-pawns; and (2) keeping the king on squares that prevent the penetration of our rook along the open e- and f-files. So long as White plays like that I can't see any way for us to break through - can anyone else? There's also <Gypsy>'s drawing line on p.233 in which White eliminates all our pawns ro reach a rook vs. pawn ending, but this one looks much simpler. |
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Oct-18-08
 | | Gypsy: <ronpaz1> Yes, I also think that the position remains a draw. I think White position is more slipery of the two, however, the fortress being the arguably best way to go. (From White point of view.) I am also for continuing on; I'd rather see the draw on the board than in the notes to the game! ---
If we are to hold to the principles we espouse when we kibitz the big guys, then we should play on, till the position is played out, should
we not?
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Oct-18-08
 | | benjinathan: I am sorry the draw offer was so close. Nearly half the team wishes to continue. |
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Oct-18-08
| | Eyal: As for the draw offer - well, unless someone can shake this rather straightforward-looking drawing line, I don't feel very strongly a need to continue the game; however, if there are enough people here who do feel strongly about it I don't really mind rejecting the draw offer either, especially since it shouldn't entail any danger of losing for us. |
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Oct-18-08
| | Gypsy: <There's also <Gypsy>'s drawing line on p.233 ...> I looked at that briefly before we played the Rg8+. My feel was/is that because, after the Kf3, White king is no longer pressing against the h-pawn, Black now has a tempo to protect the b-pawn and that should be enough for a win... |
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Oct-18-08
| | Eyal: <Gypsy> I looked at it too and got the impression that the insertion of Rg8+ shouldn't make a real difference; but I don't have the analysis with me at the moment and since, as I said, <ronpaz1>'s line is so much simpler, I don't find it urgent to reconstruct it... |
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Oct-18-08
| | OhioChessFan: I've always wondered about that <benji> I have sometimes thought it should take 75%, but then the regular contributors who vote for a draw would leave and the game would wind down to something else. I don't know. But in this case, it's my perception the great majority of active contributors/analysts are for the draw. |
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Oct-18-08
| | Gypsy: <Eyal ... since, as I said, <ronpaz1>'s line is so much simpler, I don't find it urgent to reconstruct it...> Same here. On top of the list was/is whether there is a way to deal with the fortress. |
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Oct-18-08
 | | Stonehenge: <blue wave> Congrats man! This might be the last move we play. Draw is a good result with the black pieces. Does anybody think we did anything wrong? Personally I didn't like 30...h5 (prefered ...Kh7) and 45...Rh8 (prefered ...Rh7). |
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| Oct-18-08 | | Artar1: I voted 48...a5 and to accept the <draw offer>. |
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