chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

(If you register a free account you won't see all these ads!)
Alexander Onischuk vs Magnus Carlsen
41st Biel International Chess Festival (2008), Biel SUI, rd 4, Jul-23
Slav Defense: Czech Variation. Classical System (D18)  ·  1/2-1/2
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 10 more Onischuk/Carlsen games
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: As you play through the game, you can get the FEN code for any position by right-clicking on the board and choosing "Copy Position (EPD)". Copy and paste the FEN into a post to display a diagram.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 10 OF 10 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-24-08  Mulyahnto: maybe they'll play until time control and call it a draw
Jul-24-08  Waitaka: <keypusher: Right you are; Q+N also score better with two pawns apiece according to the same source. My assertion came from a Watson book; I'll have to check it.>

Hey, don't take statistics to seriously.

You know the quote about statistics and bikinis:

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." (Aaron Levenstein)

There are a plenty of good statistics quotes here: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Statis...

After you read it, you will never trust any statistics anymore. :)

Jul-24-08  Ulhumbrus: One question is whether White can win by 34 f3 instead of 34 f4
Jul-24-08  offtherook: <Anand frequently toasted GM-strength opponents using half an hour on his clock. In fact, he is often scorned as "cheap" because of his speed.> He's "cheap" because he was better at chess than just about everyone else without having to work quite so hard? That doesn't make much sense.
Jul-24-08  MyCatPlaysChess: f6 is a silent draw offer...
Jul-24-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  kamalakanta: there is a plan for Black...close Kingside, bring his king to b6, sacrifice pawn with c4, and then Kc5, trying to penetrate on the Queenside..WAIT! I AM DREAMING AGAIN!
Jul-24-08  Xenon Oxide: Carlsen probably spent as much time+energy on this 40-move draw as an ordinary GM would on an ordinary 25-move short-draw
Jul-24-08  Udit Narayan: OK Draw
Jul-24-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  lost in space: ...f5 would have opend the position; this is mostly better for the side with the ♗
Jul-24-08  Xenon Oxide: <He's "cheap" because he was better at chess than just about everyone else without having to work quite so hard? That doesn't make much sense.>

That's what people used to say. Nobody calls him cheap now, but they used to, I think. (I wasn't following chess at that time either, but that's the impression I got!)

Jul-24-08  HFBA: <keypusher: <Waitaka: According Chessgames.com Endgame explorer Q+B+PPP x Q+N+PPP results in:

20.4% Q+B+PPP wins
55.5% draws
24.2% Q+N+PPP wins>

Right you are; Q+N also score better with two pawns apiece according to the same source. My assertion came from a Watson book; I'll have to check it.>

Secrets of Modern Chess Strategy: Advances since Nimzowitsch

Jul-24-08  Xenon Oxide: I'd like the Dominguez vs Bacrot one! That's a complicated game.
Jul-24-08  Atking: Difficult to restrain myself "Congratulation to Onischuk" Draw with with against Carlsen is good performance. I propose to the organizers to put a time handicap to Carlsen.
Jul-24-08  Waitaka: I love chess, but I hate draws. They are so boring...

Unless, of course, I am on a severe material disadvantage, and find a forced draw! :)

Jul-24-08  cuendillar: <I propose to the organizers to put a time handicap to Carlsen.> Why? He's already done that to himself.
Jul-24-08  Waitaka: <Xenon Oxide> uhn... are you Jessica?
Jul-24-08  SetNoEscapeOn: As Josh Waitzkin said: playing quickly can be a sign of confidence, but it can also be a sign of nervousness; an inability in sit within a complex position.

I have seen players of both types, but I think it's safe to say that for Carlsen and Anand it is born out of confidence.

Jul-24-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  messachess: Hello everyone. Just now looking at the game, it looks drawn at 21...h6. I wonder about that white getting a pawn on d7 in this variation. I assume this is in the GM 'book.' Right? (To a non-master like myself, it appears risky, if not fatal.)
Jul-24-08  Ulhumbrus: It may be that after 34 f3 (instead of 34 f4?) Black has a difficult ending to defend, if Black can defend it at all. One question is whether 34 f3 leads to a win.

After 35 g4 Black can keep White's King out in either wing. Another question is whether after White can win after 35 fxg5 ( instead of 35 g4) 35...hxg5 36 h4

Jul-24-08  researchj: I felt that 28...Qd6 left better chances for black.
Jul-24-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  An Englishman: Good Evening: In my earlier post, I wrote that Carlsen would need a special reason to swap the Queens, after which he immediately proceeded to do so. But we can see why--he built a fortress to guarantee the draw.
Jul-24-08  Atking: On my last post I made a miss print. The second "with" was white :(. More seriously I felt again that Onischuk opted for a draw strategy with White. At least: no risk. Indeed Alekseev tried more and got a very dangerous position. I'm afraid that strategy could be applied by the other players when they have white vs Carlsen.
Jul-24-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  messachess: <white vs Carlsen> Maybe the advice is relevant here that Kasparov got in his first championship match with Karpov. Kaspy was down 1-5 with Karpov needing one win to take the match. Kasparov was advised to draw with white--the implication being to make Karpov have to come a take the final win (rather than Kasparov trying to win and getting over-exteded again.) Karpov could not and the rest is history.
Jul-25-08  euripides: 31...Qc5 is particularly elegant because the apparent weakness on c5 is in fact a necessary part of the fortress, protecting d4.

White could get an outside passed by 35.fg hg 36.h4 but it wouldn't help.

An eye for the geometry of fortresses is an asset of very strong endgame players. Another recent example where the fortress prevents the use of an outside passed pawn as a decoy:

Sutovsky vs Onischuk, 2008

Jul-25-08  euripides: I'm not sure Onischuk was looking for a draw. Someone posted very good statistics for White after 13.d5. And if the following rather puzzling score is right, White has won the position at move 21:

E L'Ami vs Hector, 2007

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 10)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 10 OF 10 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any member Iincludinfgall Admin and Owners or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. If you think someone is an idiot, then provide evidence that their reasoning is invalid and/or idiotic, instead of just calling them an idiot. It's a subtle but important distinction, even in political discussions.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC