Vladimir Kramnik vs Ruslan Ponomariov (2008)

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Vladimir Kramnik vs Ruslan Ponomariov
Tal Memorial (2008), Moscow RUS, rd 4, Aug-21
Nimzo-Indian Defense: Classical Variation. Keres Defense (E32) · 1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Aug-21-08		whiteshark: Shredder suggested <26.Rf3> as a best move with a small surplus, but Zappa calculated it as 0.00. click for larger view Any other computer evaluations ?

Aug-22-08		Woody Wood Pusher: In the Drawnik-Pono game 31. Rf4, Qe3 32. Rxd4, Qxf2 33. Rxf2 leads to a small but persistent edge for white (eval +0.2), but it is just the sort of position Drawnik should be able to make very difficult for Pono and he would have had winning chances if he had played on! 31. h3? d3 32. Rd1, Qxc4 allows Pono to take the pawn white's winning chances are based on and the position is a dead draw (eval 0.0) after this. Drawnik chose a position with no chance to win over one with (although small) a practical chance to win?? This is the sort of lackluster attitude that earns him his critics! He never fights anymore, he is a shadow of the player he was in the 90's!

Aug-22-08		VaselineTopLove: <Drawnik chose a position with no chance to win over one with (although small) a practical chance to win?? This is the sort of lackluster attitude that earns him his critics! He never fights anymore, he is a shadow of the player he was in the 90's!> Maybe he thought both lines led to a draw? Can humans/GMs distinguish between drawn positions and positions with a miniscule advantage with precision? My guess is only a machine would be able to do so with mathematical precision and then base it's decision to play a particular line on eval numbers...

Aug-22-08		acirce: Don't feed the trolls.

Aug-22-08		Woody Wood Pusher: The point of my post was the exact opposite...the machines see only a slight advantage but practically speaking, for a human it would be difficult to defend and would give plenty of opportunities for Pono to slip up. Drawnik didn't want to put him under-pressure just to see what would happen because he lacks fighting spirit, Carlsen plays on in these positions and look at the results he achieves!

Aug-22-08		euripides: <31. Rf4. Qe3 32. Rxd4, Qxf2 33. Rxf2> At first glance this looks very comfortable for White. But Black has resources based on back rank threats. One murky line, which can no doubt be improved on for both sides, is 33...h5 34.h3 Re1+ 35.Ka2 hxg4 36.hxg4 Rh6 37.Rxd6 Rhh1 38.b4 Ra1+ 39.Kb2 Rhb1+ 40.Kc3 Rxa3+ 41.Kd4.

Aug-22-08		VaselineTopLove: <the machines see only a slight advantage but practically speaking, for a human it would be difficult to defend and would give plenty of opportunities for Pono to slip up.> That's the point I'm trying to make - just because the machines perceive a miniscule advantage, does not necessarily mean a human has to perceive it that way. To a human, positions that are drawn and that offer a very miniscule advantage may both seem the same. Only a machine would be able to distinguish one from the other because of the eval number it assigns to a particular position. For example if Line A gives +0.20 to White and Line B gives +0.25 to White, the machine will logically opt for Line B, but to a human, these slight differences may not be apparent because it doesn't play out moves on a mathematical basis.

Aug-22-08		mrbasso: There are only 3 possible evaluations for a given position (win,draw,loss). The evaluation in human chess just means: the position is easier to play for white but should still be draw with best play from both sides. The evaluations from engines mean little. They do not take into consideration at all how hard a position is to play for humans.

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