< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 6 OF 6 ·
|Apr-24-15|| ||gofer: <ahmadov:<27.Rxb4! axb4?> >|
<This is suicidal. 27...exd4 was the move to play if Black believed he could fight on. >
Well, quite! This was the problem I had with today's POTD. I didn't know the game and so
saw Rxb4 as the obvious choice, but wasn't sure what would happen after <27 ... exd4>.
It looks like black will exchange one rook and get the chance to exchange another, by which
time the game is looking a little drawn.
1) What do our silicon friends say to white's advantage after <27 Rxb4! exd4>?
2) Should play continue with <28 Rbxd4 Rxd4 29 Rxd4> or <28 Rbxd4 Rxd4 29 exd4> or something completely different???
|Apr-24-15|| ||Once: <gofer> Yup, me too. |
After 28. Rxb4 exd4 29. Rbxd4, we get to here:
click for larger view
My (admittedly steam-driven) Fritz 11 is calling this one as +0.65 - less than two thirds of a prawn. Material is level but White will say that his doubled rooks outweigh the passed black a pawn.
Fritzie now says that Black's best is 28...Qc7 challenging White to demonstrate what advantage he has in the position.
And whilst we would take that advantage in a real game, it does not a puzzle solution make. Not in my world, anyway.
Unless someone with better silicon can come up with a more convincing evaluation, it seems that the line played in the game 27...axb4 loses tidily, but 27...exd4 is a much better defence.
I'm not sure how to call this one. It's not a spoiler because 27. Rxb4 seems to be the strongest move. And it's not really a puzzle because White doesn't get much of an advantage.
Another case of CG looking only at the game continuation and not the other possible defences, perhaps?
|Apr-24-15|| ||newzild: A question to the <Chessgames> staff: do you check each days' puzzle solution with a computer programme?|
I failed to solve today's puzzle as after the obvious 24. Rxb4 I couldn't find a convincing continuation against 24...exd4.
Aronian's 24...axb4? looks like a blunder to me.
|Apr-24-15|| ||morfishine: With the DSB attacked, White must either capture something or move the piece|
Figured <27.Rxb4> was best after looking at the only other candidate: 27.Bb6
Aronian played the natural or automatic 27...axb4, but as <gofer> mentioned, Black's best chance to hold is 27...exd4
I couldn't find anything immediately decisive after 28.Rbxd4 Rxd4 9.Rxd4,
but what about <29.exd4>
click for larger view
White has all the play here with a passed d-pawn, open e-file & the immediate threat 30.Qa3+
This is probably why Aronian went with 27...axb4, not that it mattered much
|Apr-24-15|| ||goodevans: The challenge for the POTD is to find the best move. There is clearly a single move that meets that criterion even though <27.Rxb4 exd4> leads to only a small advantage. In this respect today's puzzle is a better POTD than some where several moves lead to a winning advantage.|
|Apr-24-15|| ||Once: <Goodevans> True, the challenge is to find the best move. And 27. Rxb4 is surely the best move. But this is what CG says about the puzzles: |
<What kind of move am I looking for?
The goal is to find the best move, or sequence of moves, in the given position.
You do not always have to find a checkmate! Just find the best move.
Usually, this move will lead to a superior position, either by a forced sequence of moves which leads to checkmate, or (more commonly) wins substantial material.
By "substantial material" we mean usually winning at least the exchange (i.e. trading a knight or a bishop for a rook). More commonly the winning move will net a whole piece (bishop/knight/rook) and sometimes will win the queen. Occasionally, the material will be only a single pawn--this usually happens in endgame situations where the extra pawn will surely decide the game.
The first move is not always the most difficult move to see. Sometimes, the initial move in the sequence is somewhat obvious, but the real solution to the position lies in the follow-up moves. In order to solve our puzzles, you must see enough moves to demonstrate that the initial move is correct. Simply guessing the first move, without understanding why it works, is not solving the puzzle.
Sometimes we will present a position where the player who is to move is in a nearly hopeless situation. In these positions you are expected to look for a way to draw the game instead of win it. We don't tell you that you are looking for a draw; you are expected to figure this out by the nature of the position.>
Today's POTD wins a pawn against best play, but not in an endgame situation and there is no guarantee that White will win.
That's why - for me - it doesn't feel like a CG puzzle, according to the criteria that CG have set for the POTD.
|Apr-24-15|| ||pensiveyaks: but isn't 27....exd4 a much better defence for Aronian than the text move 27... axb4 ?|
|Apr-24-15|| ||Ratt Boy: <Once>: "Today's POTD wins a pawn against best play, but not in an endgame situation and there is no guarantee that White will win."|
Well, it's pretty much a guarantee that White will win, because White is Carlsen.
|Apr-24-15|| ||Penguincw: 27.Rxb4 axb4 28.Bc5+ K (move) was pretty obvious to spot, but that's how far I got.|
|Apr-24-15|| ||Chess Dad: Black's move 27 is a significant blunder according to Stockfish.
The evaluation jumps from +1 or so to +6 as a result of 27... axb4.|
But that doesn't mean that 27. Rxb4 wasn't the best move. It was, and the difference between that and the 2nd best move (Bb2) is about 1.8 pawns at depth 30.
I also didn't see anything much after 27... exd4 28. Rbxd4.
But then again, neither did Carlsen.
|Apr-24-15|| ||Chess Dad: <Gofer: 1) What do our silicon friends say to white's advantage after <27 Rxb4! exd4>?>|
Stockfish thinks white is up about 1.2 pawns at this point.
<2) Should play continue with <28 Rbxd4 Rxd4 29 Rxd4> or <28 Rbxd4 Rxd4 29 exd4> or something completely different???>>
Stockfish says "retreat." 28. Rbb1 is the recommended move.
|Apr-24-15|| ||BOSTER: Are< young American GM> really strong <tacticians>?
This is the picture from the game Holt vs Robson , US Champ 2015.
click for larger view
White to play 12. after Robson 's 11...cxd4 attacking the knight c3.
Here Holt the great lover of the <h push> timidly played 12.Nce4.
But if he boldly played 12.exd7 , black would not have time to play 12...dxc3.
To be cont.
|Apr-24-15|| ||keypusher: <BOSTER: Are< young American GM> really strong <tacticians>? This is the picture from the game Holt vs Robson , US Champ 2015.> |
Why are you posting that here?
<To be cont.>
Somewhere else, please.
|Apr-24-15|| ||patzer2: For my Friday solution, I visualized 27. Rxb4!! axb4 (27... exd4 28. Rbxd4 ) 28. Bc5+ Ke6 (diagram below)|
click for larger view
However, I missed the surprise crushing follow-up 29. Ra1! Rd6 (not 29... b3 30. Ra6+ Kd7 31. Qc6#) 30. Bxd6 Kxd6 31. Qc6+ .
Of course after 27...exd4 28. Rbxd4 (+ 0.87 @ 21 depth, Deep Fritz 14) Black is still in the game.
Earlier, instead of 25...h5, Fritz indicates Black could have kept it level with 25... e5 26. Bb6 Rd6 27. Rxd6 Qxd6 28. Bxa5 Bxa5 29. Rxa5 Rb8 = (0.07 @ 21 depth, Deep Fritz 14).
|Apr-24-15|| ||BOSTER: < Keypusher: Why are you posting that here?>.
I guess we have different understanding of the
meaning " Post is off-topic".
|Apr-24-15|| ||keypusher: <BOSTER: < Keypusher: Why are you posting that here?>. I guess we have different understanding of the
meaning " Post is off-topic".>
Evidently. But only mine is correct.
|Apr-24-15|| ||kevin86: Similar to yesterday- a lesser (but more important ) piece is exchanged for a bigger one and the adverse game collapses- this time a little slower.|
|Apr-24-15|| ||BOSTER: < Keypusher : But only mine is correct>.
Maybe you are right after you got <CG.com :Please try to keep the discussion here rellevant to the 2015 Gashimov..>.|
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|Apr-24-15|| ||mel gibson: I agree with the many posts:
Yes 27.... PxB is a move which almost draws the game.
According to DR4 64 bit - white is ahead by less than a pawn.
Therefore Aronian made a big mistake.
|Apr-24-15|| ||bmcniece: Ok, well Rxb4 is pretty obvious and the best move, so we still have to say the puzzle is relevant. Besides the exd4 line, which id still rather have white to be honest because all the pressure is on black to play perfectly did anybody see the not so obvious 29.e4!? (or possibly 29.e4?!)29.Ra1 was a tough move to find, switching rook files in the middle of the board during tactics are hard to catch|
|Apr-24-15|| ||Ratt Boy: I wanna read ChrisOwen's next novel.|
|Apr-24-15|| ||morfishine: <But to all> Thats the point: To find the best moves for both sides, which is why I enjoy <jimfromprovidence>'s post so much, as well as many others. Use one's mind to find all sorts of variations|
|Apr-25-15|| ||Cheapo by the Dozen: I had the same problems as everybody else with the alternate defense.|
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