< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
|Mar-22-11|| ||Shams: <scormus:> <38 Be6 or Qf8+? Qf8+ is simple, direct and elegant. Be6 has a certain black humour.>|
Agreed. 39.Be6 is the choice of sadists. Give your opponent one last tiny hope, then snuff it out. We're trying to maximize our own pleasure here, right?
|Mar-22-11|| ||rilkefan: <<Once>: the goal of the game, a quick Elvisish "thank you, ma'am">|
My worn-from-reading-too-much eyes saw that as "Elvish" and wondered why Elves would play chess or, more importantly, say "Thank you, ma'am", given that in Tolkien at least they seem a lot more interested in walking among trees than laying under them. [Think that's actually not a solecism.]
|Mar-22-11|| ||YouRang: <Funicular: castle dweller: I noticed Be6 first, saw it would suffice and never looked for anything else|
Be6 does NOT suffice after Nd7 or Bd7. After exchanging, a3 puts the pressure on white, for the white bishop is not that good, the rook is almost tied to a1, etc. It certainly does not look as promising as Rh7. White is forced to carefully defend before even thinking on launching an assault on blacks king.>
What? I think you've overlooked the point of 39.Be6.
If 39...Nd7 or 39...Bd7, there are no exchanges, just 40.Qg8#
|Mar-22-11|| ||YouRang: <Funicular> Sorry for the post above, I see now that you were referring to 37.Be6, whereas I (and I believe <castle dweller>) were talking about 39.Be6 (after 37.Rh7+ Kxh7 38.Qxf7+ Kh8).|
Sometimes it helps to include some move numbers to avoid ambiguity. :-)
|Mar-22-11|| ||Once: <rilkefan: Elvisish ...Elvish">|
Apols for the confusion, my friend. I am of an age where I can rarely say "thank you" without lapsing into a very bad (albeit rather enjoyable) Elvis Presley impersonation. And for some reason, I just have to add "ma'am" to the end of it. And the odd "uh-huh" to boot.
But not alas a reference to the woodland folk of Rivendell.
In much the same way as I can't hear a Michael Jackson song without wanting to grab my crotch, lift one gloved hand in the air and scream in a suitable falsetto "ow!" and "I'm bad". If only I could get the pavement/ sidewalk to light up as I dance over it, my life would be complete.
What's that? Just me then. Oh, sorry.
|Mar-22-11|| ||atakantmac: i think 39.Be6 than 39...Nc4+
40.Kc1! i can't see a solution for black
|Mar-22-11|| ||patzer2: For today's Tuesday puzzle, we have a mate-in-five with 37. Rh7+!|
Black lost the game much earlier however.
When White was trying his early King-side flank attack, Black should have countered with action in the center early on such as 10...d5! =.
Perhaps Black was trying to outmaneuver his lower rated opponent, but it appears his regrouping attempt only left him much worse off against White's solid play.
|Mar-22-11|| ||VincentL: "Easy"
Straight away I see 38. Qxf7+ Kh8 39. Be6 and black cannot prevent Qg8 mate.
If 39......Nc4+ 40. Kc1 (and then 41. Qg8 mate).
|Mar-22-11|| ||bambino3: too easy|
|Mar-22-11|| ||David2009: S Salihu vs F Urkedal, 2008 White 37?|
Black has sacrificed the exchange for a Pawn and a dangerous atack, but White gets there first:
37 Rh7+ Kxh7 38 Qxf7+ Kh8 39 Be6 and mate on g8 can be postponed, not avoided. Time to check:
<YouRang: [snip] the king practically has a front row seat <(note: he can see over the bishop of course because he is taller).> > ROFL!!
|Mar-22-11|| ||lost in space: Well, I am late today, so I was sure I can not add anything special today.|
I found the solution quickly and read afterwards the post (normally I post my solution without reading beforehand). I was going with 39. Qf8+ and haven't even considered 39. Be6.
|Mar-22-11|| ||Penguincw: Darn it.I can't get a Tuesday puzzle right.Be6 was probably too calm (which was my prediction).|
|Mar-22-11|| ||morfishine: <Penguincw>...<Darn it.I can't get a Tuesday puzzle right.Be6 was probably too calm (which was my prediction> I think you can count yourself right with starting with <37.Rh7+> which results in a mate on move <40.>|
The curious thing here is what if Salihu played 39.Be6, then the discussion would've been about why didn't he play 39.Qf8+?...Count yourself right on this one...:) Morf
|Mar-22-11|| ||Penguincw: < morfishine: <Penguincw>...<Darn it.I can't get a Tuesday puzzle right.Be6 was probably too calm (which was my prediction> I think you can count yourself right with starting with <37.Rh7+> which results in a mate on move <40.>
The curious thing here is what if Salihu played 39.Be6, then the discussion would've been about why didn't he play 39.Qf8+?...Count yourself right on this one...:) Morf >|
|Mar-22-11|| ||scormus: <Shams: .. We're trying to maximize our own pleasure here, right?>
Right ... but I wouldnt admit it openly!|
|Mar-22-11|| ||iameatingmyself: Rh7 is the type of move that most people see immediately. Fortunately, in this situation, I am "most people" :)|
|Mar-22-11|| ||wals: Definitely my level of puzzle.
and after 37.Rh7, Kxh7 38.Qxf7+ Kh8
39.Qf8+ Kh7 40.Qh6+ Kg8 41.Be6#.
|Mar-22-11|| ||QueenMe: I played 39 ... Be6 instead of the game's continuation, because it reveals how awful Black's position really is: he cannot defend or even deliver a check (he can barely deliver a check in TWO moves); all he can do is resign or suffer Qg8# next move.|
|Mar-22-11|| ||wals: Rybka 4 x 64: d 18 : 15 min :
Black self destructed
34...Nb6, +4.16. Best, a3, +1.32.
White gave some relief with
35.Qb7, +2.45. Best, Qb8, +4.16.
Black retaliated with
35...Kf8, +5.66. Best, Qa6, +2.45.
and made certain of losing by
36...Kg7, +#5. Best, Be8, +5.66.
|Mar-22-11|| ||Phony Benoni: This has been interesting. It seems obvious now I probably shouldn't have said 39.Qh6+ was better than 39.Be6. However, I thought of one reason I might have preferred the more forcing move. We've covered everything else, so how about a little psychoanalysis?|
David Moody(1706) - Chris Weber (1988) Michigan Amateur, 1979
<1.Nc3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.e4 d6 4.Bg5 Bg7 5.Qd2 c6 6.a4 Qc7 7.Nf3 0-0 8.0-0-0 a6 9.Bh6 Nbd7 10.h4 b5 11.h5 b4 12.Bxg7 bxc3 13.Qh6 cxb2+ 14.Kb1 Ng4 15.Qg5 Kxg7 16.Qxg4 Nc5 17.Qh4 Nxa4 18.hxg6 Nc3+ 19.Kxb2 Nxd1+ 20.Kc1 hxg6>
click for larger view
The first part of the game has no significance except as being typical of my style at the time. Now, the first thing I saw was 21.Qh6+, regaining the rook with a decent position. What could be better? How about a quiet move, forcing mate or winning the queen?
I felt very good here, especially since this win would give me second place in the tournament.
Oops! With the back rank cleared, Black wins easily
<22.Rxh3 Rh8 23.Qf4 Rxh3 24.gxh3 Nc3 25.Ng5 Rf8 26.Bxa6 Nd5 27.Qe4 Ra8 28.Bd3 Ra1+ 29.Kb2
click for larger view
Taking no chances. The quiet 29...Qa5 is mate in four, but Black has had enough adventures this game.
|Mar-22-11|| ||hellopolgar: it is interesting to note that 39. Be6 also leads to immediate mate. 39 ... Nc4+ 40. Kc1 and there is nothing black can do to stop mate.|
|Mar-22-11|| ||Gilmoy: <Once: Closer to hell than to heaven.> He did not so much fall as saunter vaguely d-ward.|
|Mar-22-11|| ||meppi: here you play 37. Rh7+ and then 38 Qxf7+
or if you are cool and do not care about winning you play 37. Bc8 and announce check-mate in 12, if you did it right your opponent will resign
|Mar-22-11|| ||sevenseaman: We are close to Wednesday puzzle but our argument about 39. Be6 preparatory and 40. Q h6+ is not yet settled. Both lead to mate on the 41st.|
Those favoring Qh6+ have a valid point of not ceding the tempo (style, taste et al); those going in for Be6 preparatory insist that the B move is in any case unavoidable and Black only has a spite check<morfishine>.
I have to concede to <PhonyBenoni>that good chess players are wary of ceding a tempo(and rightly so).
But my view here is that it is a matter of which one occurs to you first. In case both are equally efficacious then one prefers one's own idea. Why? Apply it to offspring, cooking or even mixing a cocktail, and you'll know.
To me both the methods occurred within a fleeting instant of each other - the 40. Qh6+ winning in the photo finish by the proverbial nose.
Now I am an inveterate punter and suddenly I had the option of predicting the text.
Since I had never heard of Salihu in the annals of the game I took the view the plonker would take the 39. Be6 line (looks more obvious). As it turned out I lost the punt and had a bit of a red face. Salihu surprised me.
That is precisely why I keep saying patzers can turn into experts when they play against you.
I have missed my friend <Once> today. He has not responded to my ribbing him on the issue of braincells dissolving into drink. I was only trying to say since he has not lost any of his sharpness, the theory had little basis. I know communication can be a hard skill.
|Mar-23-11|| ||Once: No worries. It's all good.|
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