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|Nov-21-08|| ||Once: <njchess> Enjoyed your excellent narrative - thanks.|
|Nov-21-08|| ||ShivaBala: I played after 31. cxd6 kf8 after which white seems not to have any advantage....a couple of possibilities:|
1) 31. cxd6 kf8
32. d7 Bf6 and does not allow queening...the black king can then move to take out the pawns.
2) 31. cxd6 kf8
32. Bg5 f6
and white plays e7 or d7 then black king moves to e8 or e7 resp. to stop from the pawns from queening.
Would it be a draw then or am I missing something here?
|Nov-21-08|| ||xrt999: this is interesting. After 32.Bg5, and the ensuing 32...Be5 33.d7 Bc7 34.d8=Q+ Bxd8 35.Bxd8, the game is about +1.1 at a suprahuman depth of 13; black has 2 passed pawns for the white bishop.|
White must play 30+ perfect moves to match black's shuttling his king to b5, and simultaneously prevent the 2 passed pawns from queening. At each of the 30 moves, 1 wrong calculation and black wins. With a possibility of ~7 possible moves at each black turn, the statistical odds- after correcting for human fatigue and time constraints- are about even. On the other hand, black must also play each move perfectly in response in an effort to queen. What I am trying to say is that this game is not over, it is just beginning, and should be played by each side.
|Nov-21-08|| ||kevin86: A fine finish! The order or moves is so important here. White must:|
1 exchange off black's knight.
2 establish a passed queen's pawn and exchange queens at the same time.
3 prevent black's bishop feom stopping the pawn.
|Nov-21-08|| ||chrisowen: The key for unpicking the black defence it seems is removing the guard. Looks like a combination of 29.Bxc6 bxc6 30.Qd6 and if the queen doesn't take, the e-pawn tumbles on, otherwise 30..Qxd6 cxd6 fxe6 Bg5! locks black out.|
|Nov-21-08|| ||mworld: darn, i thought Bf4, followed by Qd7 - then taking the knight.|
|Nov-21-08|| ||Once: <xrt999> Fully agree - there is play left in this one yet. I guess that the high rating of the two players (each over 2500) means that they have enough confidence in each others technique not to play the ending out to a finish.|
|Nov-21-08|| ||njchess: <xrt999 White must play 30+ perfect moves to match black's shuttling his king to b5, and simultaneously prevent the 2 passed pawns from queening. At each of the 30 moves, 1 wrong calculation and black wins. With a possibility of ~7 possible moves at each black turn, the statistical odds- after correcting for human fatigue and time constraints- are about even. On the other hand, black must also play each move perfectly in response in an effort to queen. What I am trying to say is that this game is not over, it is just beginning, and should be played by each side.>|
Respectfully, I disagree. White's task is much easier. In fact, once he moves the bishop onto the a1-h8 diagonal and plays f4 and h4 (locking the king side), he need only move his king and keep opposition with the Black king in order to force a win. The result is that White's king prevents Black from ever recapturing.
Here is a simplified version of the position that illustrates the point.
click for larger view
In this standard end game position, White need only threaten both pawns to force capturing. For example, 1. Bf8 Kb5 2. Kc3 a3 (not 2. ... Kc6? 3. Kc4 a3 4. Bxc5 a2 5. Bd4 also fails)and one of Black's pawns will fall, soon followed by the other.
And in case anyone is thinking that Black has any play on White's king side (after f4 and h4), Be5 stops that dead in it's track!
|Nov-21-08|| ||cydmd: <boringplayer>, I got the same line you did, but unfortunately Black escapes with a perpetual. Look at all the lines I got.|
29.Bxc6 Qxc6 30.Bf4 Be5 31.Qd7!! (32.Bxe5 also wins but White must play carefully) Qxd7 32.exd7 Bf6 33.Bc7 winning
But if Black answers with 30... Qe7, it follows
31.Qd7 Qxe6 32.Qd8+ Bf8 33.Bd6
Now Black escapes making infinite checks to the white king. See what happens.
33... Qe1+ 34.Kg2 Qe4+ 35.Kf1 Qd3+ 36.Ke1 Qb1+ and Black keeps checking. 35.Kh3 and 35.f3 are hopeless as well.
|Nov-21-08|| ||jackpawn: I'm proud to say I got this one fairly quickly. Seems easier than most Fridays.|
|Nov-21-08|| ||tallinn: Funny. As this is a puzzle, I thought that Bxc6/Qd6 is not the solution asked for. However I did not see something better - like Sveshnikov :-)|
I managed to win the resulting endgame against Rybka 2mp. However it was not trivial. And in endgames I don't trust the computer to play the best moves - or even sufficiently good moves to get the same result as of best moves. I managed to stop the black c-pawn with my king and then black exchanged its g-pawn against the white f-pawn leaving me with connected pawns on g and h vs one h-pawn (I think that is not the best way of black to go). With the threat of creating a passed pawn on the kingside I pushed the black king away from the c-pawn and could collect first the a- and then the c-pawn. Black got the h-pawn in exchange but could not exchange the last man standing on g5 as the white bishop placed on c1 prevented h6 from being played. This was the position when rybka resigned:
click for larger view
But my computer thinks that exf7 is much better and that Black can't take that pawn back as after Qd5+ Kf8 Qe6 the threat Bb3 is hard to defend.
|Nov-21-08|| ||gawain: I liked 29 exf7+ too, seeing that after 29...Qxf7 30 Bb3 wins the queen. However I was too lazy to calculate the win after 29...Kxf7. Over the board that's certainly what I would have played, hoping to find a winning continuation.|
|Nov-21-08|| ||Chizoad: I got this one wrong. Tried the following, missing the correct response for black on move 30.|
29. Bxc6 bxc6
30. Bf4 Qb7
31. Qd7 Qxd7
32. exd7 Bf6
If instead black plays 30... Qe7 then 31.Qd7 is met by Qxe6. Sigh.
|Nov-21-08|| ||MiCrooks: We can argue about how easy or hard the resulting endgame is, but the facts are that his opponent resigned, so he didn't see any reason to play on.|
I too came up with the different but equivalent move order Qd6 first. I thought a bit about whether it was stronger to grab the knight first or not, I thought this was more forcing (didn't have to look at Qxc6 though I thought it probably lost Qd8+).
I didn't give exf7+ (the computer's favorite) much thought as it seemed overly complicated. Could he just play Kxf7? Seems a bit exposed, but the other seemed too easy so I discarded it.
I did look first at Qd7 and Bf4, both moves the computer likes as well, but again thought that Qd7 was simply winning while there seemed to be chances for Black to survive in those lines.
|Nov-21-08|| ||MiCrooks: Make that Qd6 was simply winning...|
|Nov-21-08|| ||fizixgeek: 29. Qd6 Qxd6
30. cxd6 fxe6
31. Bxc6 bxc6
transposes to the game line. Anyone see an avenue out for Black? I've only got Fritz 8, but it seems to like that line.
|Nov-21-08|| ||Terry McCracken: < patzer of patzers: <Terry McCracken> I don't understand your post. Bxc6 takes away the knight which is of considerable import, while 29. exf7+ (i am assuming that's what you meant) Kxf7 is rather unclear to me.> |
ef is short for exf7, in this case with check.
The Queen can't capture and the King is terribly exposed if it does.
29..Kxf7 30. Qd5+!..Ke7 31. Qg8..Qe5 32. Bg5+!..Qxg5 33. Qxg7+..Kd8 34. Qxb7..Qxc5 35. Bxc6 winning.
So 29. ef+..Kf8 30. Qd5..Bf6 31. Bf4..Qxf7 32. Bxc6..bc 33. Bh6+..Ke7 34. Qd6! winning.
I suppose taking on c6 first is simpler and wins as well. I guess it doesn't matter really and it saves a lot of calculation so it may be better to just take the Night of c6 and promote your pawn and after exchanges you'll be a Bishop up and Black's pawns will fall.
|Nov-21-08|| ||Terry McCracken: <zb2cr: Hi <Terry McCracken>,|
However, not very many of the posters here would look at the position after 30. Qd5 in your line and say: "AHA! I see exactly how to proceed!">
You're probably right and simply taking the Night wins so 29. ef+ isn't necessarily best as it's more complex.
Both lines are correct but it's better to keep things as simple as possible to avoid mistakes.
|Nov-21-08|| ||NakoSonorense: Does the order matter? I got 29.Qd6 for the first move.|
|Nov-21-08|| ||tallinn: However, Terry is right with exf and I found it less challenging to play that line vs Rybka:|
29. exf7+ Kf8 30. Qd5 Qxf7 31. Bxc6 bxc6 32. Qxc6 Be5 33. Bh6+ Ke7 34. Qb7+ Ke6 35. Qa6+ Ke7 36. Qxa7+ Kf6 37. Qa6+ Ke7 38. Bg5+ Kf8 39. Qc8+ Qe8 40. Qb7 h5 41. c6 Qf7 42. h4 (Zugzwang)
click for larger view
Qxb7 (Bd6 Qd7) 43. cxb7 Bb8 44. Bf4 Ba7 45. b8=Q+ Bxb8 46. Bxb8 1-0
|Nov-21-08|| ||jhoban: i saw this within about 15 seconds and had it completely worked out within about 45 seconds. But Fridays are generally outside of my abilities, so either i just got lucky looking at the right things (likely) or I'm getting better (less likely).|
|Nov-21-08|| ||DarthStapler: I didn't get it|
|Nov-21-08|| ||THE pawn: Call me stupid, but isn't this an ok position for black?|
32...Bh6 33.Bxh6 Kf7 34.Bg5 Ke8 and the pawn cannot be promoted, plus the two passed pawns on the queen side are monsters. Seems to me like a draw no???
|Nov-21-08|| ||akapovsky: I saw the solution like that of the game but black is by no means dead|
|Nov-22-08|| ||Woody Wood Pusher: I got 29.Bxc6,bxc6 30.Qd7,Qxd7 31.exd7,Bf6 32.Bf4,Bd8 33.Bb8,a5? + -|
but missed 33..f6! for black which draws.
30.Qd6 is much stronger. and the endgame is easily won for white.
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