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Team White vs Team Black
"Team Engine" (game of the day Feb-15-2009)
Chessgames Challenge (2008),, rd 2
Spanish Game: Morphy Defense. Archangelsk Variation (C78)  ·  1/2-1/2


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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 140 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-25-08  Simonkaser: team white I voted 1.e4
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: team black One day per move is quite deadly, especially when the game is complicated. If 1.e4, then I would give a chance to open game. I am not sure that RL is safe bet then but I am not afraid to face it as well as any other opening. It will be something new in our team matches.
Nov-25-08  willyfly: team white Yo Team! I'm for 1.b3 The Nimzo-Larsen Attack (A01) I've got lots of resources ;-D
Nov-25-08  popski: team black Oh, we have mighty Honza in our team!! That means draw in the worst case scenario! Hmm, so we can play on win! :)
Nov-25-08  popski: team black Here's my strategic team plan since we have only one day per move, so we need to use computer power efficiently. Let's put Honza as a team captain (if he will agree of course). His job will be to set priority of lines to explore in-depth.

For priority use we also need to know what kind of computer power and engines we have available. Maybe we should use sticky also for this info? I have available Crafty v20.14 on Linux 64bit and Dual Pentium 3.4GHz

So, what do you guys think about such plan?

Nov-25-08  realbrob: team black Hi everybody.

<popski> My engine is Junior 8, my machine is Intel Pentium DuoCore2 4.26 GHz.

To answer your question, I have 2 doubts:

1)Maybe we don't have enough time to find early off-beats and old rusty moves being sure they are good enough.

2)I really respect Honza Cervenka, but I don't know if it's a good idea to have a single player who settles priority of the lines we analyse. That would mean more or less that Team Black plays using his ideas.

We could do a good job with a broader discussion too if we exploit well the day in which it's our opponents' turn to move.

Nov-25-08  ganstaman: team white Yay, 1. e4 somehow lost a vote, or I somehow lost count.
Nov-25-08  melianis: team black I'm glad WannaBe is on our side. He'll bring some experience in netchess in the team :-). I'm ok with 1...b6.
Nov-25-08  Open Defence: team black I have a Quad, Rybka 3, Zappa, Deep HIARCS 12, Toga 1.4.1 SE special Beta Testers Version, Shredder 10

I have a Mac Dual Core, HIARCS 12.1 MP, Glaurung and Glaurung Lodz

but I dont use engines in the conventional way (Infinte Analysis) they are usually running on book preparation and a computer assisted match I have going on as part of the HIARCS Forum team (this time HIARCS + RYBKA Forums are playing against a Russian web site) so I usually like to play closed positions where the engine does not know whats going on

Nov-25-08  Open Defence: team black the Quad is at 2.4 GHz I dont overclock (too much of a noobie)
Premium Chessgames Member
  scolley: team white <whatthefat: <one half-move per day> Wow. Is that what it was for the original game?>

I looked up the original conditions and it was one half move per day.

Nov-25-08  melianis: team black here's one with 1...b6, though I'm always having trouble with it, Huebner obviously does not, +<Sneaky> is in the team. Timman vs Huebner, 1967

ah well, of course we have to see what they play first.

Nov-25-08  whatthefat: team white <scolley>

Thanks for that. I guess the 3 days per half-move in the GMT game atrophied my ability to work quickly! :)

Nov-26-08  popski: team black <realbrob> Thanks, and yes, probably you are right about rusty opening suggestion and our time constraints, it was meant more for fun, and because I've been reading and playing main lines so much in all those years that I'm currently more in off-beat and rusty openings mood otb...:) Heh, one of my wishes is to see some thematic GM's tournament against 'unsound' openings played by computers. That would be interesting to see!

Second, it's still a mystery what kind of man machine centaur is the best mix for a perfect score. With a team is even harder to make a good mix, I guess... So that's why idea to set human captain, I think that teams made worst decisions in the early middle game stage where engines shows only 'minor' differences in evaluations between very different lines. Heh, and I don't want to even talk about Morphy's law with the random choices when are results for two lines equal...

That's why I think it would be good to set one good player for a captain, who would be authority in those delicate key moments, especially if he is experienced with a correspondence chess. Maybe is someone even better for such rule than Honza, but he's for sure one of the best here, and I hope that he will raise voice when we'll be on the funky crossroads! Well, at least I will listen to him very carefully.. :)

Anyway, I hope that we'll make a nice game and less compulsive obsessed comments than in my previous team..

After all, it's all about quality fun, isn't it!? :)

Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: team black <Someone has to explain to me what the point is in playing a computer assisted game.> Comps are useful as assistance as they help to avoid blunders and can spare a lot of time in analyses which are also more precise with their help. But it would be a big mistake to rely on them. Any average correspondence player would be able to smash any comp playing alone without any troubles. Btw, when I was active correspondence player, I never used anything better than old Fritz 1.0 running on a laughable comp with 486 processsor.
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: team white I didn't want to be the first to address the playing strength of our opponents. Apparently nobody is offended by noticing the plain fact that the other side is loaded. That can be offset to a large degree by hard work. I think TheChessExpress sleeps about 7 minutes a day while in team games, but some of the other strong players on that side appear to have other obligations that don't let them participate as consistently. Many of the better players on both sides are major participants in the GMAN Game, and there's another World game that's going to start in a few months. Hard work and a consistent presence will have more to do with the quality of this game than who the starting five on each side are.

d4 for me. It's hard for me to think e4 against such a strong opponent is our best shot. ;)

Nov-26-08  TheaN: team white <I didn't want to be the first to address the playing strength of our opponents.>

Good to address it once more though: I never knew the Black team guys are THAT well experts with CPU games but I did notice most of the names of the Black team being the ones active in the GMAN game.

I don't know if I can help you much. I currently own a 2.4*4 Ghz (Quad) pentium, without any chess engines yet. If you can advise me any good and FREE engines and how to operate them correctly (although I would be able to find that out on my own), I'd be willing to run it overnight... just drop a message here or on my profile. Otherwise I'd be willing to do some other task for the team; I'd like to mix up in these games for once :).

Nov-26-08  MindCtrol9: team white <TheaN>I read you're looking for free engines to install on your computer.I took some time looking for it.Go to the AN game,and page 512-13.You will see there are some engines free,and they suppose to be good.I got one them "Infinity Chess Beta" and this is very good.I hope this help you.
Premium Chessgames Member
  kwgurge: team white <TheaN> Welcome. You should also log into the GMAN game and check the Yellow Sticky. It has a couple of links whcih discuss engines and engine use.
Nov-26-08  MindCtrol9: team white Eh..I'm not too bad playing Rybka 2.1.The final position is a draw in 53 moves:N vs R.A blitz game,but interesting.
Nov-26-08  realbrob: team black <popski: Anyway, I hope that we'll make a nice game and less compulsive obsessed comments than in my previous team..>

I hope so too. In my team (which wasn't yours probably, I think I was Team White) there was almost a fight between two players and one of them left the game for a while. I thought that was very sad.

<Honza Cervenka> I agree, engines usually make CC more fun. They do the "dirty job" of calculating every single line and leave you some time to think of clever ideas. Which is what humans should do! ;)

Nov-26-08  zanshin: team white <TheaN> A good starting point is <chesstoplay>'s forum. I would suggest Arena as the GUI and Rybka 2 as the engine - both are free. I found Arena confusing and the instructions limited (unless you read German).
Premium Chessgames Member
  ajile: team white <OhioChessFan: I didn't want to be the first to address the playing strength of our opponents. Apparently nobody is offended by noticing the plain fact that the other side is loaded.>

RV's computers are overrated. This is our chance to prove it.

Nov-26-08  blue wave: team black <1. e4 e5 I'm pretty set on. The rest I'm open to suggestion.> It would really be nice to play a well known opening for a change. I agree with <Chess Express>
Nov-27-08  radu stancu: team white Changed vote from 1.Nf3 to 1.d4. d4 is losing ground fast to e4, and Nf3 is out of the running anyway, so I thought I'd show my support for d4 now when it can still matter. :)
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