chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Yuniesky Quesada Perez vs Alexander Onischuk
Olympiad (2008), Dresden GER, rd 6, Nov-19
Spanish Game: Berlin Defense. l'Hermet Variation Berlin Wall Defense (C67)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

Click Here to play Guess-the-Move
Given 3 times; par: 107 [what's this?]

explore this opening
find similar games 1 more Y Quesada Perez/Onischuk game
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: All games have a Kibitzer's Corner provided for community discussion. If you have a question or comment about this game, register a free account so you can post there.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-22-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Please, vote for Aneta! See the link above.
Jan-22-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: I'm beginning to suspect <JimfromProvidence> has a point in this position, with White to play after <57...Rh3> (analysis)


click for larger view

First, the immediate 58.h7 doesn't work: 58...Bb1 58.h8Q+ Rxh8 59.Bxh8 Kxe7.

Second, if White tries to prepare h7 by moving his rook, Black gets in ...Bb1 and the blockade is very hard to break. Losing the b-pawn is irrelevant. For example, 58.Rb7 Bb1 59.Rxb5 Bc2 (or another safe square along b1-h7):


click for larger view

Now if you try to set up Kf6, Black's rook can check from behind. The White rook can't trap the bishop, and exchange sacrifices with 60.Rf5 Bxf5 61.gxf5 or 60.Bg7+ Kg8 61.Rf5 Bxf5 62.Kxf5 are tablebase draws.

It's not that easy!

Jan-22-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: The first move was necessary since 56♔xh7?? ♖xh5#. but,on the second move that pawn is captured.

Despite BOOC,white's pawns are so strong,that a win is possible.

Jan-22-11  rilkefan: <60.Bg7+ Kg8 61.Rf5 Bxf5 62.Kxf5 are tablebase draws.>

This is the line I was looking at, but with Rb8+ and Rf8+ added to push the king away - does that not help?

Jan-22-11  WhiteRook48: I actually got it. 56 g4 Rxf3 57 Kxh7 and white's king can escape the attacks; and the pawn gets through,
Jan-22-11  checkmateyourmove: i moved h pawn up then white bishop to D6 then rook to F file. i think a win is there cause the king retreats far, but cant firgure it out yet. heres endgame simulator.

http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t....

Jan-22-11  David2009: Y Quezada vs Onischuk, 2008 White 56?

Could't solve this. I saw 56.g4 Rxf3 57.Kxh7 Rh3 and thought White could not make progress. So I decided the prepare things with 56.Bc7 expecting b5 (or 56...Rf6+ 57.Kxh7 wins the h Pawn) 57.Bd8 (threatening Rd7+ and Rxh7). Was this it? Setting the problem position


click for larger view

up on Crafty End Game Trainer, I discovered a major flaw in my analysis. My proposed continuation LOSES: 56.Bc7 Rf6+ 57.Kxh7 Kf8! forces mate. Crafty EGT link to the puzzle position http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...

Time to check: perhaps this is a spoiler?
====
No spoiler, 56.g4 Rxf3 57.Kxh7 Rh3 58 Kh6! was the right way. Crafty EGT defends with 58...Rh4! 59 Kg5 Rh1 gaining an important move in the game line. Time to digest the other kibitzing. Meanwhile if anyone can beat the EGT please post the winning line.

Jan-22-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  gofer: My immediate reaction would be that black has allowed the rook to get trapped and that simply isn't very wise. So I would play f4. But looking at this OTB, it looks very unsuccessful. So lets try the other pawn push, which looks great!!!

<56 g4 Rxf3> (forced)

<57 Kxh2! ...>

Suddenly white has two passed pawns and the black rook is poorly placed to stop them!


click for larger view

Now I wouldn't say that this was all over but it is going to be difficult for black to defend. I am struggling to find a good move for black and the more I look at this I realise that the black rook is virtually useless and white just needs to get rid of black's bishop and the game will be won. (i.e. trade R for B!).

<57 ... Rh3>
<58 Kh3 Bc4>

For white the opportunities are thin on the ground
(58 g5 Rxh5#) or
(58 h6 Bc4! winning) or
(58 Rf1+ Rf3 drawing)

There are also some bad moves for black!

(58 ... Bf3 59 Rf1 winning)

<59 g5 Bd3>
<60 Bf6! ...>

Now it seems all over for black. Time to check...

Jan-22-11  k.khalil: 56. g4. White is seizing the initiative and moves his pawn forward into blacks territory.Black's move becomes predictable, 65...Rxf3. Why not 57.g5
Jan-22-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  gofer: <David2009> The following line beats Crafty EGT. The key is to trade rook for bishop...

57 ... Rh3
58 Kh6 Rh4
59 Kg5 Rh1
60 Re2 Bc4
61 Rf2+ Ke6
62 Bc3 b5
63 h6 Bd3
64 Rf3 Be4
65 Rf4 Kd5
66 Rxd4! Kxd4

Finally white manages to get rid of black's bishop - Game Over!!!

67 Kg6 Rh3
68 Bf6 b4
68 g4 b3
69 h7 Kf4
70 Rxh8 Bxh8

and now it really is game over... :-) ...amazing how rubbish a rook is against two connected pawns backed up by the king...

Jan-22-11  checkmateyourmove: < david2009> once rooks are exchanged on H1, then push h pawn forward and king up to G7. check out the endgame i set up on simulator , much harder to beat with rook not exchanged so quickly
Jan-22-11  cyclon: <gofer: (56 g4 Rxf3 57 Kxh2! Rh3 58 Kh6)> and here your suggestion was 58. -Bc4, mentioning; 58. -Bf3 59.Rf1 winning, BUT please, could you show me a forced winning continuation for White after 59. -Ke6?
Jan-22-11  wals: Not even close.

Rybka 4 x 64

Black blunder, possibly the first on a quick run through- d 21 : 6 min :
(+4.27):55...Bd5. Best,

1. (2.64): 55...Ke8 56.f4 Rf7 57.Kg5 Rf8 58.Bg7 Rf5+ 59.Kh6 Kd7 60.Be5 Rf7 61.Rd1+ Ke8 62.Rd6 Bc8 63.Rxb6 Bf5 64.Kg5 Be4 65.Rb8+ Kd7 66.g4 Re7 67.f5 Re8 68.Rb5 Rg8+ 69.Kf4 Bc6 70.Rb6 Ra8

2. (2.69): 55...Kg8 56.f4[] Rf8 57.g4 Re8 58.Ra1 Bd5 59.Ra7 Re6+ 60.Kg5[] Be4 61.Bg7[] Rd6 62.f5[] Bc6 63.h6[] Rd7 64.Ra6[] Kf7 65.Rxb6 Rc7 66.Be5 Rc8 67.Ra6 Ke7 68.Ra7+ Bd7 69.Bf6+ Ke8 70.Rb7 Rc2

White error: d 20 : 3 min :
(+3.45):58.Kh6. Best,

1. (4.27): 58.h6 Bc4 59.Rd1[] Re3 60.Rd4 Bd3+ 61.Rxd3[] Rxd3 62.g5 Rd8

Black blunder: d 18 : 2 min :
(+11.35):58...Rh1. Best,

1. (3.45): 58...Rh4 59.Kg5[] Rh1 60.Re3[] Be6 61.Rf3+[] Ke7 62.Bf6+ Kd6 63.Rd3+[] Kc5 64.Be7+[] Kc4 65.Rd6[] Bg8 66.Rxb6 Bh7 67.Rd6 Rh3 68.Rd7 Rd3 69.Rc7+ Kd5 70.Bb4 Be4 71.h6 Rh3 72.Ra7 Rh1 73.Rd7+ Ke6

and Black resigned after 61...Kd5, +17.17.

Jan-22-11  David2009: <gofer> Very nice logical winning sequence: congratulations and thanks. <checkmateyourmove:> I can't get my King to g7 in your line: please post the move sequence you had in mind. <cyclon>: is this the position you have in mind with White to play?


click for larger view

If so White wins quite simply (at least, against Crafty EGT) starting 60 Kg7 Bc4 61 Bc7+ Kd7 62 Bxb6 Bd4 (to forestall 63 Re4) 63 Rd1 and give up R for B winning as in <gofer>'s main line: 63...Kc7 64 Rxd5 Kxd5 65 Bd8! etc (65 Kg6 also wins) but NOT 65 h6?? Rbg3! =. Crafty EGT link to your position: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...

[See my previous post Y Quezada vs Onischuk, 2008 for the puzzle position with Crafty EGT link]

Jan-22-11  wals: For those interested in fluid intelligence, a trait that is similar to IQ and is critical in solving new problems, check out,

http://www.lumosity.com

which may also assist in increasing/maintaining cognitive functions.

Jan-22-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <gofer> <David2009> Don't forget that black does not have to play 59...Rh1 in the lines you two agreed on; "56 g4 Rxf3 57 Kxh7 Rh3 58 Kh6 Rh4 59 Kg5". 59...Rh3 is the correct move here.


click for larger view

From what I've read since this morning, the consensus is leaning towards this position now being a draw. I would love for that to be proven wrong.

Jan-22-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  4tmac: Is 58. h6(!) "safer"?
Jan-22-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  gofer: <Jimfromprovidence>: You are probably right. I have no idea whether I could find a win against "best play".

Crafty EGT is far from perfect, so I was only too happy to rise to <David 2009>'s challenge, but against a better foe I have no idea what I might find...

Jan-22-11  VincentL: "Very Difficult".

Itīs late in the day, so the position will have been thoroughly analyzed.

For what itīs worth, hereīs my effort.

At first glance I almost preferred blackīs position, although he is a pawn down.

White cannot play 56. Kxh7 on account of 56.....Rxh5 mate.

Blackīs rook is trapped - however it will be difficult to capture it, since g4 leaves the pawn on f3 unprotected, allowing black to play Rxf3.

The must start g4 of f4 I am sure.

I prefer 56. g4, then 56....Rxf3 57. Kxh7 This must be it, I think.

Now, what can black do to stop the march of the pawns? Maybe best is 57.....b5. I think then 58. g5 b4 59. g6+ Kf8 60. g7+ Ke8 61. h6 b3. There must be other possible variations.

Now perhaps 62. Bb2+ Kd7 63. Rg1. and I think white wins.

Well, there must be many other lines.

I am gping to check.

Jan-22-11  M.Hassan: ery Difficult" White to play 56.?
White is a pawn up.
My solution is straightforward:

56.Bd4 b5
57.Re5 Rxe5
58.Bxe5 Kg8
59.Kg5 Kf7
60.Kf4 Ke7
61.g4
White has pawn majority
MAY win

Jan-22-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  DarthStapler: I got the first move4
Jan-23-11  cyclon: <David2009:> NO, it's NOT the position I had in mind! CORRECT position > W: Kh6, Rf1, Be5, g4,h5 B: Kf7, Rh3, Bf3, b6. Here "Gofer" claimed a win for White after he has played 59.Rf1 BUT, when Black replies with 59. -Ke6, HOW White wins?
Jan-23-11  David2009: <cyclon> re Y Quezada vs Onischuk, 2008 I see what you mean.


click for larger view

is your position. Setting it up on Crafty End Game Trainer, if I play to win with Rxf3 Rxf3; Bc7 b5; g5 b4; g6 b3; g7 the EGT turns the tables with ...Rf6+! and Black wins. If there is a win I can't find it. Can anyone find one? - <gofer> over to you.
EGT link: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...

Jan-23-11  cyclon: <David2009:> Thanks also for you for answering. I just get "hooked" into position. It bothered me.
Jan-23-11  checkmateyourmove: <jimfromprovidence> gofer: <David2009> The following line beats Crafty EGT. The key is to trade rook for bishop...

57 ... Rh3
58 Kh6 Rh4
59 Kg5 Rh1
60 Re2 Bc4
61 Rf2+ Ke6
62 Bc3 b5
63 h6 Bd3
64 Rf3 Be4
65 Rf4 Kd5
66 Rxd4! Kxd4

gofer showed that line beat as well

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 3)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any member Iincludinfgall Admin and Owners or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. If you think someone is an idiot, then provide evidence that their reasoning is invalid and/or idiotic, instead of just calling them an idiot. It's a subtle but important distinction, even in political discussions.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
56. g4! yields two connected passers & wins with good techniqu
from Passed Pawns by patzer2
43_R+B -opp.col. (wonderful attacking weapons)
by whiteshark
56.? (Saturday, January 22)
from POTD Ruy Lopez by takchess
56.? (January 22, 2011)
from Saturday Puzzles, 2011-2017 by Phony Benoni
Games Around the World: Cuba
by Gottschalk
56.? Rooks with opposite coloured bishops
from gourav27's favorite games by gourav27
56.? (Saturday, January 22)
from Puzzle of the Day 2011 by Phony Benoni
56. g4! yields two connected passers & wins with good techniqu
from Passed Pawns by Jaredfchess


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC